21st Century Witch Burnings…

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  • Dustin Bennett

    I still don’t understand the phobia of gay marriage. I mean, why should us straight folk have a monopoly on marriage???

  • Rich Mars

    Does anyone proof read these things before the put them out on the net? Rfefused??

  • Julio Garcia

    There’s no phobia, or desire for monopoly.

    Some things are wrong. And you should stand against those things.

  • Larry TheComputerGeek

    Because marriage is a God ordained Biblical institution that calls out homosexuality as both an abomination and a sin. THAT is why straight folk have a monopoly on marriage

  • Larry TheComputerGeek

    True Christianity has always been a minority.

  • Sofie Liv

    But marriage is an instituation that has taken place in many cultures and religions out-side of Christianity.

    It was some-thing created sepperately in different culture, due to convenience, so you knew who belonged to who.

    There is marriage in buddhiesm, greek mythology, hinduism, you can even be married under Norse beliefs in certain countries in the north.

    Those institutions steems all the way back to long before birth of christ, and thus christian clearly don’t have monoply on the idea.

    It’s just that purely legally in our modern world it doesn’t matter which religion you are married under, just as long as you are married and sign the papers, again for convience sake, so people can life as partners.

    In fact, it would merely be more practical if partners all-ready intending to share every-thing together, could do it official and legal via marriage.

  • Kenneth Andrews

    wrong? you mean based on your opinion drawn from a book that condones actual witch burnings?

  • Blake

    Well Technically God ordained it for Adam and Eve and all man after, soooo, Greeks, Hindus, and the whole lot came after 😉 so that makes sense why they have it, we are ALL decendents of them

  • TheElfHerself

    Marriage started before Christianity, yes, it started when God created it in the garden of Eden. However, even if we were to discount marriage as a Christian covenant, other cultures and religions do not allow gay marriage either, so why should the US?

  • TheElfHerself

    Please give evidence to support your claims.

  • TheElfHerself

    That’s part of the issue here Dustin. As a human being I have the right to believe that some things are sinful, and I have a right not to be forced to participate in them. If I do not want to offer my services to a lesbian couple, that is my choice to refuse them. It doesn’t mean I have a phobia (which in this case is actually an incorrect usage of the term) it just means I do not want to participate in something I consider to be wrong. I have the right to believe it is wrong, just as you have the right to believe it is right.

  • JessicaSideways

    Not really, considering everyone believes they are a true Christian and the definition varies.

  • JessicaSideways

    Yes, but you are still required to follow the law. You can’t discriminate against black people under the law, why should you be allowed to discriminate against providing a service on the basis of someone’s sexual orientation?

    I’m a Buddhist. If I were marrying a man, would you refuse to bake a cake (or provide some other secular service) – even if the ceremony was a traditional Buddhist ceremony? Technically, per the rules of your religion, my religion is sinful because Buddhism is, at it’s core, non-theistic. Do you assert that you have the right to discriminate against me because I am a Buddhist?

    You have the right to believe whatever you want, however you don’t have the right to act any way you choose. There is this thing called the law, and nobody is above it.

  • JessicaSideways

    How is marriage wrong? Why do you wish to stand against marriage?

  • JessicaSideways

    Well, for starters: Exodus 22:18, Leviticus 20:27, Revelation 21:8

  • JessicaSideways

    But it’s also a civil and cultural institution that symbolizes the highest level of commitment, fidelity and obligation to another person. Many people of different faiths or of no faith get married, and THAT is why straight folk don’t have a monopoly on marriage.

    … Or shouldn’t. That, and the first amendment separating church and state.

  • rkhammack

    Then there’s God Law, which all mankind has rebelled against since the beginning.

    And God has warned mankind that there is a judgment day and they will answer.

    And those who have tried to “change the laws” to suit there brand of corruption to avoid God’s Law, will pay dearly.

    Luke 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

    Ps 37:28 For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.

    Job 34:10 Therefore hearken unto me, ye men of understanding: far be it from God, that he should do wickedness; and from the Almighty, that he should commit iniquity. Deut 32:4; 2Chr 19:7; Job 8:3; Job 36:23; Ps 92:15; Rom 9:14;

    11 For the work of a man shall he render unto him, and cause every man to find according to his ways. Ps 62:12; Prov 24:12; Jer 17:10; Jer 32:19; Ezek 7:27; Ezek 33:20; Matt 16:27; Rom 2:6; 1Cor 3:8; 2Cor 5:10; Eph 6:8; Col 3:25; 1Pet 1:17; Rev 22:12;

    12 Yea, surely God will not do wickedly, neither will the Almighty pervert judgment.

    Ezek 5:6 And she hath changed my judgments into wickedness more than the nations, and my statutes more than the countries that are round about her: for they have refused my judgments and my statutes, they have not walked in them.

    Prov 19:28 An ungodly witness scorneth judgment: and the mouth of the wicked devoureth iniquity.

  • Julio Garcia

    By definition, marriage is never wrong. What you’re talking about is not marriage.

  • Julio Garcia

    Well let’s see… Exodus 22:18 and Leviticus 20:27 were orders given exclusively to Israel in order to handle their civil government and foreign affairs once they settled into Canaan… nothing commanding the Church to burn witches. So, besides this being crazy-out-of-context, so is Revelations 21:8 which is simply stating what awaits those practicing such acts as described on that list in the afterlife… nothing on how they should be treated while still alive here, OR anything telling the church to “burn” them.

    You guys are trying to hard, just live and let live eh? No one is breaking the law or being immoral by standing for what’s right. *Sigh* welp, here’s to hoping you’ll cross the fence soon one of these days.

  • TheElfHerself

    The law does not go above my moral code or supersede my right to not participate in something I consider sinful. It’s not the religious aspect of the “marriage” that anyone is protesting, it’s the sinful lifestyle. If I were a photographer, baker, or musician and a lesbian couple came to me and asked that I provide a service for their wedding I should be able to refuse: I should not be forced to associate myself with something I consider sinful. In a similar way that I would refuse to provide services to a couple’s wedding if I knew that their relationship came from adultery, it’s my prerogative. This is entirely different from someone choosing not to serve food to a lesbian, or a teacher refusing to teach a gay child, etc.; the couple can go to a company that supports gay marriage and have their services provided there.

  • TheElfHerself

    Yes, really, because you can only be a Christian if you actually follow the Bible. There are things that are clearly stated in the Bible, if someone goes against that they’re wrong and not following Christ’s teachings, even if they claim to. Some things are not strictly stated, musical style preferences, so people differ over those. But that’s ok. Things that we should agree on are things like mercy, holiness, love, etc. I can give specifics if you like.

  • JessicaSideways

    Well, in many countries – it is illegal to stand up for what is right. Have you heard about the Russian law that prohibits even advocating for equality? Marriage equality still isn’t available in most of the country and in most of the country, it is still legal to discriminate against LGBT people – which means that people can be immoral and it is perfectly legal.

    Thankfully, some states have adequate anti-discrimination laws in place to help curb discrimination against LGBT people.

  • JessicaSideways

    If you don’t want to provide the goods and services of your business without discrimination, then don’t start a business. If you feel that doing otherwise would compromise your “moral code” (which, when you talk about justifying discrimination, shows how skewed your moral compass is), then that is the only option.

    No, you shouldn’t be able to refuse on the basis of discrimination. I think Christianity is inherently evil, but I don’t refuse to do a shoot for a Christian couple having a church wedding because (a) I am not a bigot and (b) I’m a realist.

    No, it is not different from any of those scenarios. And yes, the couple COULD go to another company, but why should they? It’s your obligation as a business owner in one of the regrettably few states with anti-discrimination laws to render services without discrimination. If you don’t want to, shutter your doors.

  • JessicaSideways

    What corruption? I thought we were talking about marriage equality, not corruption.

  • JessicaSideways

    And some might argue with those specifics. The reason why I take issue with the phrase “true Christian” is because I have heard people assert that they are a “true Christian” while holding different positions on various social issues. I’ve heard people assert that because they are a “true Christian”, they support marriage equality and abortion rights. I’ve also heard people say that they are against those rights because they are a “true Christian”.

    The term “true Christian” is a misnomer, and is rarely used by anyone to describe anyone else with differing theological viewpoints. Just sayin’. 😉

  • JessicaSideways

    Actually, yes I was. Specifically, equal marriage for homosexual couples.

  • Kenneth Andrews

    We don’t need anti discrimination laws. let individuals do what they will with, or on their property so long as nothing violent is done.

    I hate when someone says we need a government to tell me how to be PC. I’m definitely OK with homosexuality, and would serve them in a business. But I would not do so just to spite being told what to do.

    The only anti discrimination laws should be aimed at government. It’s a theocratic government we don’t need.

    And please Republicans. It’s this crap that keeps you from getting elected. so please for the love of your god stop being so bigoted or the liberals we hate will continue to run the country.

  • JessicaSideways

    Actually, considering the discrimination against gay people that still runs rampant, yes we do. It’s not just gay people either, anti-discrimination laws benefit every minority. Do you really think that women would ever break into STEM fields if anti-discrimination laws didn’t allow them to enter schools and get jobs in the STEM fields?

    How about Muslims? Do you really think that after 9/11, anyone wearing a turban would even be allowed to step foot in an airport? I may not like Islam (primarily for the same reasons I don’t like Christianity) but I believe in their right not to be fucked with just because of their religion. It’s like my point with the Christians here – no one really minds what you believe, it’s how you act that’s the problem.

    You know, I was raised conservative, as a fundamentalist Christian down in Texas no less, and many of my ideals still lean to the right. But they have been expanded and people believe that my ideals are more to the left.

    * I believe in helping people on disability get trained and get the care they need to reenter the workforce. Not taking away their benefits so that they are less capable of doing so, but offering training and assistance to make sure that they can.
    * I believe that marriage is the ultimate in commitment and should be protected – that all consenting adults should have the right to enter into it.
    * I believe that the government should stop religious dogma and bigotry from creeping into our laws. There was a reason our Founding Fathers wrote the First Amendment the way they did and it should be respected.

    These are just some of my beliefs. And can anyone really tell me what is wrong with them?

  • melmc13

    The first amendment is to restrain government from making laws restricting religion, not the other way around. Separation of church and state is not in the constitution, regardless of how often it is said to be so. Saying it over and over does not make it factually correct.

  • JessicaSideways

    You’re right, separation of church and state is not in the constitution, it’s in the Bill of Rights.

    Did I say that it was in the constitution?

  • Julio Garcia

    Marriage is the union between a man and a woman. By its nature, homosexual unions are not marriage.

    They can sue for something else, maybe something unique to them, but not marriage, as they do not qualify for it.

  • JessicaSideways

    Marriage is a union that CAN be between a man and a woman, but it can also be between two women or between two men. By it’s nature, homosexual unions ARE marriage. I suggest you go to a gay wedding and see the union for yourself.

    We are working to qualify for marriage – after all, there is no legitimate reason why we should be denied marriage equality.

  • Julio Garcia

    Marriage “equality” is not right, because it cannot exist. There are no other forms of marriage beyond the basic union of unequal genders and a commitment to society through it.

    The fact that Russia is advocating this idea is merely logical.

    Homosexuality is treatable, and not inherently immutable like your ethnicity or culture.

    No one approves or condones abuse towards other human beings, LGBT people included. Countries enforcing regulations that physically punish or denies equal work or educational opportunities based on race or sexual preference are wrong, due to the fact these are vocational in nature, based on the individual’s aptitude and effort.

  • Julio Garcia

    Unfortunately, no.

    Historically, marriage has been demonstrated as defined previously.

    Religiously (not exclusively Judeo-Christian traditions), marriage has been a sacrament between un-equal genders. Some allow for more than one partner.

    Scientifically, there is no favorable or healthy outcome or result that would lead to condone or exhort homosexual behavior, not biologically, chemically or anthropologically speaking for the furtherance of the human species.

    None of these reasons warrant any LGBT to be a social outcast, but people struggling with such drives should seek assistance. Why the gov’t is fighting “against” these incentives is unclear, as there is a whole minority now known as “Ex-Gays” who are fighting for their rights to be recognized as successfully coming out of homosexuality.

  • Julio Garcia

    Actually, as a Hispanic, I must say we were the catalyst for Obama to be re-elected.

    It was either self-deportation with Romney, or free legalized citizenship with Obama. The choice for my illegal brethren was clear.

    I, of course, am not American, or live in NA anymore, but I would be understandably uncomfortable at having certain criminal minorities deciding how my country, morals, and finances are going to be defined for the next 4 years of my life.

  • JessicaSideways

    Actually, it can exist. There are several countries where marriage equality is the law of the land and it is working.

    And no, Russia’s advocacy for bigotry is not logical. Not even remotely. Also, homosexuality is NOT treatable and it is immutable. All of the reputable authorities affirm the fact that homosexuality is immutable.

    You actually did approve of abuse towards other human beings. You think the persecution of gays in Russia is “logical”.

  • JessicaSideways

    Also, historically, marriage was banned between people of different races. That doesn’t make it right, though.

    But ex-gay therapy doesn’t work. What is going on is known as cognitive dissonance. Reparative therapy (a/k/a ex-gay therapy) has been proven to be psychologically harmful and the product of the Christian subculture that teaches that gay people are inferior, disgusting and horrible. They teach gay people to hate themselves.

    I know this because I was raised Christian and I was ex-gay. Now, I am ex-ex-gay and I can say honestly that it is bullshit.

  • Julio Garcia

    Again, you are incorrect.

    A “working” marriage equality bill is not the issue. Anyone can work towards being a good spouse or parent even in same-sex situations. The problem is, this behavior is wrong and legislation *encouraging* its’ practice is also wrong. Legislation advocating treatment, or facilitating financial aid towards that end is a step towards the right direction.

    I never said I fully agreed with Russia’s full extent of its’ law enforcement, or even how the complete law was ratified. I simply pointed out that it is logical for any legislation to outlaw marriage for something that is not, and can never be, marriage.

    Do not manipulate my words please, I am being very clear.

    As for Homosexuality being treatable, the only reputable authorities you are listening to are the ones you want to hear. The homosexuals actually walking *out* of homosexuality have formed a minority group and are demanding rights, something you conveniently forgot to address in your statement.

    Ironically, they are being persecuted by people with similar views to your own for taking this simple stance in treating their condition.

    And there are many, many, many people who have stepped out of Homosexuality. If you would like to, I have a couple dozen testimonials of individuals that have stepped out that I would not mind to share with you. Just let me know ;).

  • JessicaSideways

    What behaviour? Being gay is not a behaviour, it is a personal innate trait. Like being left handed, which religious people thought that they could treat. It worked about as well as trying to brainwash, I mean treat, gay people.

    Actually, marriage is marriage, whether the spouses are heterosexual or homosexual. It not only can be marriage, it is and this has been proven in the jurisdictions where marriage equality is the law of the land.

    How is it logical to pass legislation reinforcing bigotry and hate against a minority? You said it was logical, please tell me how?

    Actually, the reputable authorities that affirm the fact that homosexuality is an innate trait and cannot be treated include the American Psychological Association, the American Psychiatric Association and the National Association of Social Workers – to name only three. You know, respected professional organizations in clinical fields.

    What “rights” are these homosexuals in denial asking for, pray tell? By pretending to be straight, they are no longer bullied by ignorant Christians. They will be accepted in that community until the brainwashing wears off and they realize they really are gay.

    How are ex-gay people being persecuted by people like me? And what “condition”? Homosexuality is not a “condition”, it is an immutable trait.

  • Sofie Liv

    We are just going to ignore the concept of revolution here then?

    I mean, that you are of a different religion, often means you don’t believe in the christian god or the christian creation myth.

    So we are just compleately going to dis-regard all of those people and claim them to be wrong?

    Also that gay marriage is illegal in ALL other religions is incorrect, there has been known tribal religions where marriage to more than just one partner, and partner of same gender, has been deemed compleately legal.

    It’s really not my buisness what other people believe, we are all titled to our opinion.

    You believe in christianity, I don’t, which is fine. Power to you.

    It only becomes a problem when you use religion as an bad excuse to stop evolution of society and put us back in mideveil times.

    Society changes, and thus things has to change with them, such as marriage as an institution.

    We no longer keep black people as slaves, just for them being black.

    Women have voting right, and a right to be heard.

    Divorce is a thing, and it’s every mans right.

    Different cultures and religions have a right to be there, and is by law, allowed to exist simultaniously with each other.

    You are disrespecting other peoples religion in a way I would not disrespect christianity, because I have respect for people whom are christians, in spite of not being a christian myself.

    Ones again, other peoples religion is not my buisness, it’s theirs.
    People are people, not their religion.

    In my world, the biggest sin you can commit, is to course other people misery and deny them happiness.

    By denying gays the right to be what they just happen to be born as.

    We are denying them happiness and gives them misery and hardship that is absolutely unnecesary.

    I don’t care what people belive… as long as it doesn’t harm any-one.

    Denying people happiness, IS doing harm, and that is what I mind, and that is what bothers me.
    We are dealing with people here, not just some emotionless abnormalities.

    We as a society should be better than that by now.

    Come join us in the modern real world when you feel like it one day.

  • Larry TheComputerGeek

    Again: marriage has it’s origins in The Bible. Between a man & woman. Homosexuality therein is identified as “detestable”. Like it or not. Man cannot make okay what God had called detestable.

  • Larry TheComputerGeek

    Separation of Church & State is merely in a letter. I doubt anyone can prove it is in a bill of rights.

  • Kenneth Andrews

    Jessica. My property is not yours. You don’t own me. If I make a decision to be Racist/Sexist/Homophobic that’s my business. We don’t need the thought police at our door.

    You want to run my business? than come buy it from me. But don’t come banging on my door dictating I live my live to your standards. And I don’t Hold any laws made by a group of other people to be legitimate. Its simply a dictatorship by other people.

    That being said any man Turning down a service based on any preference is only hurting themselves. In a capitalist economy the gay couple will just go get a cake from another store. Meanwhile I’m losing costumers. And as someone who actually ran a business I can say its hard, all money is green, and you take what you can get.

    The greatest protection against Discrimination is capitalism. I suggest “Capitalism and Freedom” – by Milton Friedman. It covers this exact subject. And once you study and realize that most discrimination was a result of government you can end this pointless crusade.

    Finally I point to my constitutional right. Freedom of association.

  • Kenneth Andrews

    homosexuality is treatable? hmm. Isn’t it funny that most PHD holders, Psychologists, Biologists, evolutionary scholars, and virtually anyone with a brain disagrees with you?

    as said Its trait like being left handed. And training out Left handedness is possible… if of course you want to cause issues with dyslexia and such.

  • TheElfHerself

    Very true. There is also no genetically discernible difference between a gay man and a straight man, but there is between races and genders (of course). Even between identical twins where one is gay and the other isn’t, there is not a genetic difference (studies have included identical twins that were raised together as well as those raised separately).

  • TheElfHerself

    Please cite sources for your “reputable authorities.” And what about those who refer to themselves as ex-gays?

    He meant that no one harms them, even if they aren’t allowed to marry.

  • TheElfHerself

    I’m sorry you were raised in a home that was a poor example of Christianity. I will pray for you.

  • TheElfHerself

    Technically, if there is no right way to do things, then there is no such thing as a moral compass, because a compass points one way…so your conclusion that my moral compass is skewed because it disagrees with you is an illogical comparison.

    It’s your choice to do a church wedding or not, you can always say no for any reason you want to. If a couple asks me to provide a service and I decline, it could be for any number of reasons. I am not required to disclose my reasons, nor do they matter. My photographer friends turn down assignments occasionally, and for varying reasons. Maybe I’m busy, or sick, or I had a fight with the maid of honor and it would be uncomfortable. Whatever. It’s my decision.

    The couple can go to another company for the same reason that many people go to other companies: cost, style, personnel, options, schedule, location, whatever. It’s not my fault they chose to be gay and come to an openly Christian source. Also, I have no doors to shutter…I am a musician and I perform wherever I’m needed or want to perform. Provided that it’s not a lesbian wedding. 😉 But of course, I would never tell them that, I would just decline and they can happily go somewhere else to get their music in blissful ignorance to my beliefs.

  • TheElfHerself

    Then those who called themselves true Christians but went against the Bible (like by supporting abortion or homosexuality) aren’t really following Christ’s teachings. They may be saved and go to Heaven, only God knows that, but they aren’t following His word.

  • JessicaSideways

    Right, your property is not mine and you can choose to be a bigot all you want. But you can’t act any way you please and if you break the law, you (ideally) suffer the consequences. You can believe whatever you want. However, you cannot act any way you please – there is this thing called the LAW and nobody is above it.

    I don’t want to run your business, I just want you to run your business in a professional, legal manner. If you don’t like the laws in this country – if you don’t like the concept that you can’t discriminate against people, leave.

    Actually, we know that racial discrimination was ended by the government with the Civil Rights Act.

    Your constitutional right does not give you the right to break the law. You can join the Klan if you want, but when you lynch a black man – pointing to your freedom of association won’t help you.

  • JessicaSideways

    I did cite my sources below. The American Psychological Association and the American Psychiatric Association to name two.

    What about those that refer to themselves as ex-gay? I mean, other than the fact that they succumbed to homophobia from an incredibly hostile society and submitted to quackery? Other than the fact that those “treatments” are not based in science and don’t work (maybe it’s because of the fact that there is nothing wrong with being gay)? Other than the fact that they are used as a prop for bigots to justify their hatred of gay people?

  • JessicaSideways

    Actually, after having left Bible College (and Christianity) several years ago, I have talked with a number of Christians and those experiences all showed me that leaving Christianity was a very good thing for me.

    Not to mention the fact that Christianity and it’s central tenets are false, but also the fact that they are used to commit acts of evil. Like prejudice against gays, justification of slavery (the Christian white man was doing the savage black man a favour), the extermination of Jews and creation of the myth of blood libel, the suppression of scientific discovery and the arts, the extermination of early paganism… need I go on?

    It’s not a poor example of Christianity, it is an example of the trend of Christianity – a trend of moral decay and evil.

  • JessicaSideways

    Well, no I can’t (because there is this thing called the LAW, remember?). There are certain churches I won’t shoot in but that is because they have certain rules and regulations regarding flash photography that make it impossible to get great photos I would be proud to deliver.

    And no, people don’t choose to be gay. Why do you suffer from the delusion that people choose to be gay, why would anyone open themselves up to the prejudice and bigotry that gay people to suffer?

    Why do you believe in discrimination?

  • Larry TheComputerGeek

    True Christians know the New Testament and the Grace of Jesus… Something the godless cannot comprehend.

  • JessicaSideways

    But they claim that they are following “his word”, just as you do. The phase “true Christian” is a useless phrase, it means nothing.

    Also, there is nothing in the Bible against abortion (seriously).

  • JessicaSideways

    Which is why the “true Christians ™” of Salem, Massachusetts burned women who they thought were witches, right?

  • JessicaSideways

    Considering they are advocating for something as detestable as discrimination and prejudice – yes, I can declare them to be wrong.

    I disrespect Christianity because it is disrespectful to humanity. It is evil at it’s core and it’s entire history demonstrates that. Like I’ve said before, you have the right to believe whatever you want but you don’t have the right to act however you please.

    It sounds like you got a bit off track for your posts – I never advocated for the bigotry of Christianity.

  • JessicaSideways

    First Amendment. I know you don’t like to read but you should really give it a try sometime.

  • Larry TheComputerGeek

    New England witch burnings were isolated to the mid 1635-165? era & included at least 2 men. Hardly true Christian by today’s standards. Never mind Shari’a & Islam mutilation & murder of women and non-Christians since 700AD up to current times. Right, Ms.Sideways?

  • Sofie Liv

    I’m sorry I didn’t mean you personally, I meant those other people above, I just wrote a pretty way long down, thinking it would connect to all comments.

    This comment system is pretty messed up -_-;

    .. I don’t hate Christianity for just being christianity.

    At its core, it’s a nice beautiful concept, teaching some nice lessons about acceptance, kindness, helping any-one in need, regardless of their background or what they have, the worth of man kind and how we should stand together and help each other.

    It’s just a shame there’s a lot of christian groups so obsessed in pride that they have forgotten these values entirely.

    All groups have their extremists, also groups which were originally about accepting every-one.

    That’s where Christianity and nerd culture suddenly becomes frightening similar.. all extremists are frightening similar that way.. it’s sad really.

    I’m really really sorry if I upset you, you seem like a smart person able to think for yourself, and well.. what more can you really ask of a person these days?

  • JessicaSideways

    I do hate Christianity for being afraid of knowledge and fostering some of the worst atrocities in western civilization. I think it has been a bane to the world at large.

    But yeah, I don’t think the geek culture is as bad as Christianity. They don’t want to institute a law to ban the Playstation or Xbox. They don’t set up a brainwashing camps to make others fit the geek stereotype. No one has been burned at the stake for not being interested in computer. It’s Christianity that has done these things, not geek culture.

  • JessicaSideways

    I’m not saying what Islam is doing is right – I am against Islam for the exact same reasons I am against Christianity. Both exhibit irrational intolerance, hatred of gays and women, a strict adherence to an ancient book of middle eastern fairy tales and the assent to cruelty and evil.

    Islam is evil, yes, and so is Christianity.

  • Sofie Liv

    I’m a huge geek myself, so well.. I just think it’s worth noting that we are all human, and large institutions tends to have groups like that.

    And groups not necesarily represent the entire instituion. A person may be very open minded and intelligent and a christian.

    Or stupid, and ignorant and a christian.

    Or stupid and ignorant and a atheist.

    Or for the sake of argument, since I am a buddhiest. I am sure there are stupid, ignorant buddhiests out there to.

    But don’t blame that on the religion, which is supposed to be a free spot for every-one whom searches clarity and guidance, which technically just teaches nice messages… blame it on the stupid people whom lack ordinary human decency and respect.

  • JPauline Baker

    WTH are you talking about?

  • Ascencion Gomez

    And left handed people can be taught to be right handed too.. Wouldn’t that be treatable?

  • Kenneth Andrews

    Actually Yes the constitution is the highest law their is. We are a CONSTITUTIONAL republic. Meaning all these laws you speak of must Follow the constitution. So any law that breaks constitutional law is invalid.

    Hanging a black man is murder, not freedom of association dunce.

    And actually yes I disregard all of mans laws that Directly interfere with my personal freedom. You and the majority have no right to tell me how to live simply because you think you are morally superior. In the same way Religious nuts shouldn’t tell gays How to live based on their twisted morals.

    I am an individual and I disregard any LAW that is written by another man to control me.

    Also It’s worth noting that Slavery was the LAW. Does that mean it was just? And no Discrimination Was pushed forward starting in the jim crow era in which GOVERNMENT openly made the blacks life hard, and arrested them and threw them into legalized slavery through the prison system.

    And then segregation was a LAW that was in fact upheld by the supreme court as “Separate But equal” So the idea that Individuals and not government were discriminatory is ridiculous.

    both Jim Crow, and Segregation were sets of LAWS. Does that mean they should be followed? or disobeyed.

  • Kenneth Andrews

    no It mixes up your brain. It’s proven to cause developmental issues one major issue being Dyslexia.

  • Ascencion Gomez

    Very interesting…I agree and it makes sense…I burned my
    left arm and lost all fine motor skill function. I had to learn to write with my right hand at the age of 11. As an adult I’ve noticed a ton of problems that I’ve attributed indirectly to my left-handed right handedness :-). Writing and proofing what I wrote…or just basic things like cutting the turkey with my right hand but seeing it from a left-handed perspective. I’ve a sister who’s earned PsyD and she wants to study me because of it and some of the obstacles I’ve had to overcome…I’ve earned a DSL several years back …and that was hardest thing to do because of the writing involved. Anyway, thanks for the information …maybe I’ll let my sister study my hand changes and its affects…

  • Larry TheComputerGeek

    So naïve and so lacking theological understanding. It is foolishness that renders that no one needs to repent from sin of any kind. Jesus demonstrated life after death. Mohammed died & stayed dead. Many love their sin more than God & more than Jesus. To call Christianity evil is just plain stupid.

  • Larry TheComputerGeek

    So should you. It is not there.

  • Larry TheComputerGeek

    Homosexuality is a lust issue. Described as detestable in the Bible. Old testament law prescribed “stoning” such persons, whereas Book Of Romans says to “turn them over” for their unnatural lusts. It is just another sexual sin. All should repent from what ever sins block fellowship with Christ.

  • rkhammack

    Christ is from before the Beginning!

    Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.
    Psalms 90:2

    Pr 8:23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the
    earth was.

    And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast
    laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine
    hands: Heb 1:10

    For other foundation can no man
    lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 1Corinthians 3:11

    And He is before all things, and by Him all things consist. And He is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from
    the dead; that in all things He might have the PREEMINENCE. Colossians 1:17-18


    John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

  • http://saberpoint.blogspot.com Stogie Chomper

    Jessica, you’re a hater, we get it. Pretty ignorant too, come to think of it.

  • rkhammack

    Again you are right.

    Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

    Also we are in the days when God says people will call ‘good evil and evil good’.

    (Isa 5:20) Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

    You sure are aligning with the truth of the Bible.

  • Larry TheComputerGeek

    All of creation testifies to God’s existence. Bible indicates only a fool says there is no God.

  • Larry TheComputerGeek

    some of us prefer several hundred years of Theology over the foolish testimony of an anonymous hack on an Internet web page.

  • JessicaSideways

    Isn’t it hilarious that a book that actually calls evil good and good evil would actually assert that it’s wrong to do that? Much like how the Bible asserts that those that don’t believe are fools, while espousing an incredibly foolish belief system. Hypocrisy, much?

  • JessicaSideways

    You do realize the the Bible and the Koran are both works of fiction, right? It’s debatable whether there even was a Jesus.

    And no, it’s not stupid to call Christianity evil because Christianity preaches hatred and discrimination, teaches people to hate their lives, encourages ignorance and acceptance of lies under the guise of “faith”, encourages murder and slavery, rewards rape… need I go on?

    Christianity is evil. Q.E.D.

  • JessicaSideways

    Clearly, you are the dunce when you consider that you didn’t you didn’t even get the point. Yes, murder is illegal. So is discrimination and in some states, discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation is rolled into that.

    Yes, but we do have the right to punish you under the law for violating it. And I know I am morally superior, I am not the one on here trying to justify discrimination and bigotry – you are.

  • JessicaSideways

    How am I ignorant?

  • JessicaSideways

    Yes but when that religion is causing a lot of problems and it all comes back to that, I think it is fair to blame the religion and the bigot.

  • JessicaSideways

    Yes it is. Like I said, read the first amendment.

  • JessicaSideways

    But since there is no Jesus, I think we as humans assume that authority.

  • JessicaSideways

    Just because it’s older doesn’t mean it’s valid. Next thing you know, Larry will be telling us that he still uses leeches in healthcare because they’ve been around longer than that new fangled science-based medicine.

  • JessicaSideways

    No it doesn’t.

    Isn’t it hilarious that a book that has the most foolish story someone cooked up asserts that it’s the people who believe in reality that are the fools?

    It’s like the drunk guy telling everyone else that they are the ones with the problem.

  • rkhammack

    Oh, the fact that they are fools is not that it was impossible to believe in knowing there is a God. It is in the fact of denying something that they did know and chose to not believe. That is what makes them “fools”.

    [Romans 1:19-22] Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

    Now a fool will have to call God a liar so they will not have to think of themselves as fools. And they will face judgment in their self-deceived ignorance.

    [Rom 3:4] God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

  • JessicaSideways

    No, what I am saying is that the Bible is fiction. Make believe. It wasn’t written by a god, it was written by pig ignorant men and compiled by priests who thought that the average gullible twit wouldn’t be able to get his hands on a copy and find out how absurd this really is.

    But, like Twilight, people think it is good when it isn’t, and think that it a masterpiece, though it’s not.

  • Kenneth Andrews

    No what you are trying to justify is the ability of a collection of individuals to break into my property and force me to act in a specific. Way. It is YOU who missed the point.

    There is no Constitutional Law Preventing Prosecution of Murder. There is however constitutional law that says I have Freedom of association.

    If someone Chooses Not to follow your morals you are not morally superior by putting a gun to their head and putting them in a prison.

    This is a country Where Freedom was put first. Not feelings.

    and just a note. Come to my house and try to Prosecute me And I’ll cover you with holes and not think twice. I am not your property, I am not the governments property. I have the freedom to act and choose however I want as long as I don’t initiate violence against another.

  • Larry TheComputerGeek

    I know there is nobody on this thread qualified to deny the truth & historical accuracy of the Bible and the Deity of Jesus Christ. I can also see clearly that JessicaSideways is a seriously erroneous & self absorbed theologian.

  • JessicaSideways

    It’s not breaking in if:
    a) it’s a business.
    b) it’s open.
    c) you’re not in any section labelled “employees only” and
    d) you haven’t been asked to leave prior to entering.

    And that whole “force me to act in a specific. Way.” (because way just had to be it’s own sentence, didn’t it?)… that’s the law. If you break the law, there are consequences. It’s still you that missed the point. Surprise, surprise.

    Yes, but you don’t have the right to break the law. If you are running a business, you have a legal obligation to serve all members of your community equally.

    No, but I am morally superior when you are trying to justify bigotry and hatred.

    Honestly, I don’t want you anywhere near me. It sounds like you’re a violent, bigoted thug who deals in thinly veiled threats.

  • JessicaSideways

    Well, actually, I am qualified because:

    a) I’ve actually read the Bible cover to cover (that’s what made me an atheist)
    b) I have an IQ over 100 and
    c) I am not insane.

    Therefore, I believe the Bible is nonsense.

  • Larry TheComputerGeek

    1Corinthians, chapter 2 testifies that you are not qualified, Jessica.

  • Larry TheComputerGeek

    Psalm 14:1 also disqualifies all other egocentric atheists as qualified theologians, too.

  • Larry TheComputerGeek

    God first referenced marriage as being between a man & a woman in Genesis 2:4-24.

  • JessicaSideways

    Quoting ancient fiction to judge that I am not qualified to judge fiction. Interesting.

  • JessicaSideways

    Actually, as an ex-believer, I know more about the Bible than you. That is why I don’t believe in it.

  • Larry TheComputerGeek

    You are entitled to your opinion. You are free to reject God. Certainly, many have & will. However, the validity & value of the Bible and Savior Jesus Christ is timeless. Far bigger than you. You are the captain of your own ship. Everyone is a theologian. You just happen to be a godless one. Enjoy your godlessness. Just don’t take anyone with you.

  • rkhammack

    Oh I see I miss one the other options man will go for in denying the God of the Bible so that they will be self-justified in their own righteousness and deny they are but sinners..

    What you believe to be written by men, when in fact is Eternal God, is proven by His Wisdom declaring Truth, that man denies. Who but only an omniscience God could declare thousands of years ago knowledge of the wickedness prevalent in this day of mass communications increasing in knowledge of that wickedness. But can only be the all Wise God of Creation who has opened the Bible to reveal all this so that those who have been chosen to ‘see’ would see the Glory of God in His Righteous Justice, judging the world for their wickedness. Those chosen have been convicted of the same sin that is in all mankind and knows they along with the whole world are deserving of eternal destruction.

    Men (and women too) judge others, also by what is ‘right’ in their own eyes but lacks the ‘perfect righteousness’ to see absolute TRUTH. So you judge, making yourself a god.

    [1Cor 5:13] But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

    Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

    [Psalms 82:1-8] A Psalm of Asaph. God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

    How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.

    Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.

    Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.

    They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.

    I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

    But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

    Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

    Prov 28:26 He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool:
    but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered.

    Micah 7:5 Trust ye not in a friend, put ye not confidence in a guide: keep the doors of thy mouth from her that lieth in thy bosom.

    Jer 17:5 Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh fleshhis arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.

  • JessicaSideways

    Ugh, no – you aren’t listening. I deny the god of the Bible for the same reason I deny Santa Claus or the Predators from Alien vs. Predator – all three are imaginary beings. It has nothing to do with “sin”.

    Yes, which is why the Bible is self-contradictory, asserts things that are not demonstrable in any way (i.e. sin, heaven, angels, the garden of eden, etc.), asserts things that we KNOW aren’t true (i.e. Jesus’ folks didn’t have to go to their home town for the roman census, the vast deviance from the Standard Operating Practices of the Empire in regards to crucifixion, etc) and moral assertions which have proven to be immoral (i.e. god telling people how hard they can beat their slaves, that men can rape unmarried women and they have to marry these women – the woman gets no say, stoning gay people, etc). The Bible is not only untrue, it’s also evil.

    There is no absolute truth when making moral judgments. That’s why you think it’s okay to abuse people and I don’t. Your holy book says it’s okay to treat gay people badly and my morality says it’s not.

    And quoting a book of fiction does nothing but prove how truly deluded you are.

  • JessicaSideways

    If by timeless, you mean timelessly false and timelessly trying to avoid the burden of proof – then yes. Yes, the fraud of the Bible is timeless (or rather, it’s not considering the Council of Nicaea started the work of establishing Biblical canon in the fourth century, C.E.).

    Yes, the scam is far bigger than me.

    Finally, I don’t look at myself as godless, I look at myself as god-free. I choose not to hobble myself with the delusion that there is a god. My life has become so much better and I have become a much more moral person because of it.

    As for taking people with me, well – I am going to try to do my part to wake people up and help them escape the prison of belief that is Christianity. Christianity is, to be quite honest, the rape of the soul and it needs to be stopped – especially when you see how it hurts people inside and out.

  • Kenneth Andrews

    You make a lot of assumptions about someone you don’t know.

    But it should be noted who is the thug here.

    You are the one threatening me. You are telling me that if I don’t act up to your standards you will send armed men to my house and arrest me then throw me in a prison. Who is violent?

    Also I am the least bigoted person you will ever know.

    finally Correcting Someones little grammatical error is a sign of weakness. you can’t argue the actual point of your force so you change the subject to something completely irrelevant.

    I don’t care about your laws, or your consequences. Its nothing more than legalized extortion. There is nothing legitimate about the power of men over other men and I will not recognize any authority granted by such illegitimate power.

  • Larry TheComputerGeek

    Again: you are free to remain in the Sewer of Atheism if you like. Just don’t take others with you. Your elevating yourself above thousands of years of Biblical theology is absurd and stinks of exaggerated self importance. I guess you are what you is.

  • rkhammack

    Your quote >”It has nothing to do with “sin”.
    Where else has ‘sin’ been exposed to it’s fullest extent? ? ? But the BIBLE!

    AND? >”asserts things that are not demonstrable in any way (i.e. sin,”

    Not demonstrable? Girl you have told a whopper now. You ever told a lie? You ever stole anything? You ever committed adultery? (you would probably try to deny this).

    What about those that murder, was that not demonstrable? Or is that just another genetic characteristics of human nature? AND SHOULD NOT BE PUNISHED?

    What do you call all these that are mentioned in the Bible?

    fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner [1 Cor 5:11]

    unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
    Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
    Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: [Romans 1:]

    Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

    Matt 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

    John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

    This is what the God of the Bible says about the people of this World after He has brought judgment upon them.

    Rev 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

    (Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

    Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

    And you, Jessica Sideways obviously loveth and maketh a lie.

    1John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

  • rkhammack

    1 Tim 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

    This fits you perfectly Jessica Sideways. God knew from the beginning you would go the wide road of destruction. Thousands of years ago! ! !

  • JessicaSideways

    What are you talking about, that quote from your middle eastern fairy tale book doesn’t describe me at all. Not even remotely,

    Firstly, I also don’t believe in spirits or devils. I think they are equally as ridiculous as Jesus.

    Also, I am not speaking lies nor hypocrisy. And my conscience is stronger now than it ever was, simply because I no longer predicate my morality on a book of fairy tales.

  • JessicaSideways

    Hey, you’re the one obsessed with “sin”, not me. That’s why you keep bringing it up. I told you that I don’t believe in the Bible because it is factually incorrect and immoral.

    Yes, I have done all of those things, but “sin” is an unproven supernatural component that can only be relieved by “repentance” to a non-aggrieved third party. It takes the focus off of making amends to those who were actually aggrieved and instead reinforces belief in the imaginary sky daddy. Somethings that aren’t eve wrong as considered “sins”. Things like believing in another religion (which is about as wrong a believing in Christianity, more or less) and being gay.

    Hey, you’re the one who “loveth” a lie, you keep posting walls of text from a middle eastern book of fairy tales as if they are true. You keep asserting there are imaginary things that there aren’t. If either one of us loved a lie, it would be you – no contest!

  • JessicaSideways

    Actually, it’s more about stopping the toxic effect of Christianity on our society. That’s my public service.

  • JessicaSideways

    Assumptions? Let me quote from your previous post:

    “and just a note. Come to my house and try to Prosecute me And I’ll cover you with holes and not think twice.”

    It still sounds like you’re the thug here. And actually, you are still a very bigoted person and I know tons of people less bigoted. They don’t go to extreme lengths to try to justify businesses discriminating against gays.

    And I have actually argued my point successfully. You just refuse to accept that you are in a country of laws and you don’t give a damn about the law. You will hurt whatever people you want to and deride the system designed to stop you from doing so.

  • Julio Garcia

    Lol, ok. There’s a huge difference between brain asymmetry and sexual orientation.

    For starters, your handedness is determined in part by biological factors, and in it is also largely influenced by your surrounding, meaning it can be acquired. Handedness is simply a reflection of which side of your brain is more dominant, and there are no ill side effects. In Genetics this is called a “Trait”.

    Secondly, Homosexuality has neither been proved or disproved to be genetic. So your argument is entirely based on educated assumptions. However, tests have been run, as to when removal of these genes from lab mice caused females to be attracted to other females and exhibit male-like reproductive mannerisms. Other female mice with the unaltered gene were still interested on male mice. In short – the experiment seems to point out that if a large factor in determining sexual orientation is genetic, then it is a defect in the genetic make up of that particular gene, which in genetics is known as “Mutation”.

    Therefore, homosexuality is a biological dead-end that does nothing to further our species (in fact, the only beneficial aspect of it, biologically speaking, is that those *with* this mutation choose to not reproduce, eventually eliminating or minimizing it from the rest of the population).

    Being left handed has no such side effects. That’s why it’s a trait, and homosexuality a condition, just like any other. And it’s treatable. Don’t bite those lies in, there’s help to be had IF you want it. Apparently you don’t, but that doesn’t remove the fact that it’s still there.

  • Julio Garcia

    Why you would include “evolutionary scholars” as people with a brain is mystery to me, but I’ve already answered this somewhere else.

    In short – homosexual genes dominating: “MUTATION” (Ill side effects).

    – left handedness: “TRAIT” (no ill side effects).

    If believing that millions of years ago nothing exploded and there’s everything magically and spontaneously creating all sorts of diverse life randomly requires a brain, I can only surmise the deep and terrible stupidity the rest of those who disagree are stooped under…

    And in case you missed the point: /sarcasm

  • Julio Garcia

    So, how come you can get THIS right, but not the other point!?!!? Here I am up-voting your comments and I thought miracles didn’t happen anymore 😉

  • Julio Garcia

    Woah, that’s some seriously baseless accusations you have going on there. So, how many years in college did it take before some hyper liberalist professor posed these questions and you never even bothered to research an answers?

    With 1 reading of your argument I can present evidence proving Christianity is innocent of all of those charges as a teaching and lifestyle philosophy.

    The only truly morally decaying vewpoint here is yours – one that advocates indecency, immorality, intolerance of others’ views and most importantly ideals that exhort self-destructing habits and lifestyles.

  • Kenneth Andrews

    Filling you with holes as you try to kidnap me would be self defense in my book. You are the thug aggression against me. Don’t blame the porcupine for sticking you after you flick it on the forehead.

    and actually no you won’t meet anyone less bigoted than I. As that is impossible. I see everyone as an individual rather than in groups, and I treat people as individuals. with respect. and I don’t judge others based on their actions so long as they don’t aggress on me.

    I do accept this is a country of laws and I don’t give a damn.. Didn’t you hear me point that out clearly when I repeatedly said I don’t care about your laws?

    When did I say I would hurt anyone? you are filling the blanks with fallacies. I’m non violent. I don’t believe in aggression against others period. It’s you who will hurt anyone you want in order to justify system of legalized slavery. You see me as property. I am a disobedient child and you seek to punish me as my parent. You see me as somone who must follow your morals regardless of my own beliefs and You would justify throwing me in prison under threat of death if I don’t do as I’m told.

  • Julio Garcia

    Yes it does and it is simple. It’s against murder, right? So when does human life begin? The Bible says conception, which logically translates abortion into murder instantly, and at any stage of pregnancy.

    And here I thought you were making truly good arguments from your point of view, and then this happens. I am dissapoint =/

  • JessicaSideways

    How is homosexuality a condition? What “side effects” are you babbling on about and again, no it is not treatable (partly because IT’S NOT A CONDITION).

    That “help” is pseudoscientific quackery, which (like all quackery) winds up hurting people, not helping them.

  • Julio Garcia

    Yep, definitely, feeding and clothing the poor, helping those in need, bringing life-changing hope to those in despair, repairing families and marriages, providing those without a family with a loving community that cares and exhorts to help others in turn, standing for morality and what is right…

    Yep THE EVILS OF CHRISTIANITY! Burn them evil christians!! To the stake with them! Oh wait, I think that’s been said before by other people claiming to be “true Chrsitians”… *shrugs* I guess even we have come under attack by the “true Christians”! In fact, Jessica you sound like one of these “True Christians”, if memory serves right, should we begin calling you “inquisitor Sideways?” After all you will never be able to remove the effects of Christianity from anywhere without removing the Christians, am I right?

  • JessicaSideways

    How’s it baseless? And actually, the Bible College wasn’t liberal at all, it was conservative. When I researched their answers to my questions, I found the “answers” to be lacking and did my own research. I found out that the Bible is not only incorrect, but immoral and evil.

    How is Christianity innocent of ANY of these charges? You say you CAN present evidence that contradicts history and the reality of Christianity today but you haven’t done it.

    And no, it is your morally decaying viewpoint. I don’t think anyone should be stoned to death or that slavery is okay or that it’s okay to force a man to marry the woman he raped (which she doesn’t get a say about). I don’t advocate indecency, immorality, intolerance or self-destructive habits, (where did you pick that garbage up from?) it is Christianity that advocates these things.

  • JessicaSideways

    Actually, the Bible isn’t against murder. There are several points in the Bible where god commands that people be killed or does the killing himself.

    Yes, the Bible may say life begins at conception but it also talks about a flat earth and a talking snake. Clearly, the Bible shouldn’t taken as anything other than how gullible some people can be.

  • Julio Garcia

    *sigh* did you even bother to read? IT IS A CONDITION BECAUSE IT IS INHERENTLY NEGATIVE. There are *NO* positive effects to homosexuality. NONE! In fact,
    it’s the #1 source of STD’s in males,
    it can’t produce offspring, homosexuals have one of the HIGHEST suicide rates among people groups,
    AND to top it off, it’s immoral and unnatural.

    There is NOTHING good about it. Therefore, like ANY CONDITION it is a CONDITION that can be TREATED so its effects can be controlled NOT NECESSARILY REMOVED.

    I thought your IQ was over 100? If you can’t understand this, then I would take that test one more just in case.

  • JessicaSideways

    Those things can be done on a secular basis as well. Plus, we can do them without teaching people lies or brainwashing them. We don’t need Christianity to do those things.

    Christianity advocates for suppression of freedom, suppression of knowledge and turns people into babbling idiots (like you).

    No, I am not a Christian of any stripe – I have decided to believe in reality.

  • JessicaSideways

    No, being gay is not inherently negative. Granted, there is a band of bigots out there persecuting gays but that is external to being gay itself.

    There are as many positive effects to homosexuality as there are to heterosexuality. As for STDs, do you have the evidence for that? As for offspring, in a world suffering from overpopulation, why should every man and woman be breeding?

    Maybe the suicide rate is high because there are people like you who persecute gay people, spreading lies about gay people, poisoning the minds of people with your ignorance and working to create a society that is hostile to gay people?

  • Julio Garcia

    That’s not murder. It’s killing.

    Murder =/= Killing.

    Murder has intent and self benefit.
    Killing is the taking of life and may take many aspects, INCLUDING the Death penalty, which if you paid any attention to while you were reading the Bible, God commanded the deaths of people as a sentence for breaking the Law, Sin, or as a judgment. But never because “oh God just wants him dead”.

    God never told anyone to murder out spite or self benefit, but rather to fulfill justice. He even forgave people who DESERVED this sentence on occasion. But of course, we don’t point these things out right? Heh, talk about brainwashing…

  • Julio Garcia

    Oh really? A flat earth?

    Isaiah 40:22

    “It is he that sitteth upon **the circle of the earth**, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:”

    You know, I wouldn’t really count the “Reader’s Digest” version of the Bible as a valid entry that qualifies for a “cover to cover” read-through.

  • JessicaSideways

    Murder is not killing, are you shitting me? Yes, murder has intent and self-benefit – that’s why this was murder!

    Well, I do agree that god never told anyone anything but that’s because god is make believe. And nobody deserves to be murdered.

    So, justifying murder… tell me how your morality hasn’t been corrupted by this religion again?

  • JessicaSideways

    A circle is a 2-D entity, you twit. A sphere is a 3-D entity. That’s why the Catholic church persecuted Galileo for discovering that the earth is round.

  • Julio Garcia

    Hahaha, this is definitely becoming funny. I come to you with nothing more than common sense, facts and shut down every single argument you have thrown out there, and suddenly, I’m a babbling idiot?

    Grand. Thanks for making it even more clear that your philosophy is not only stupid, it’s dangerous.

    True Altruism is never present without the denial of the self. So while it is possible for secular individuals to effect merciful acts, these can never amount to true altruism, because it is in complete opposition to an atheistic world view, that looks after its own self. “Scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours.”

    Fortunately, there’s not way for me to completely prove this view due to the unfortunate fact that you were created in the image of God as well, and as such, have the opportunity to inherit piety and selflessness in one way or another due to design.

  • JessicaSideways

    WTF? You’re the one bringing up kidnapping and only to make your threat seem justified. Your original threat made no mention of kidnapping nor was it posited ANYWHERE ELSE on the thread. You threatened to shoot up guests in your home, you sick man. You are the thug.

    And I actually know many people less bigoted than you. MANY. Because those many people don’t try to justify discrimination. It’s very possible to be less bigoted than you, because you justify bigotry against gay people.

    They aren’t MY laws, they are the country’s laws. I’m not justifying slavery, and when you threaten people, when you choose to violate the laws, you deserve to be punished. If you don’t like it, move someplace where the laws are more to your liking.

  • JessicaSideways

    You are bereft of common sense, facts and want to shut down every argument, that’s why you believe in the Bible. It is your philosophy that is stupid and dangerous. I shut down your arguments with reason and logic, you babble on with idiocy and quotes from a book of fairy tales.

    No, aturism is not in opposition to atheism. Atheism is simply the lack of belief in a god.

    No, I wasn’t created in the “image of god” since there is a difference between god and me: I exist and I am a moral person.

  • Julio Garcia

    I never justified murder. I simply explained it to you. Murder is wrong, and I SAID THE BIBLE IS AGAINST MURDER.

    Geez, dude(tte?), can you STOP twisting my words?

    I said MURDER is KILLING WITH INTENT AND SELF BENEFIT, which would not directly equate the term or sense of “Killing”.

    Again, I thought you were supposed to be smart! Can’t you even read meaning with what is being discussed? Everything must be spoon fed to you? What do you think I am, the Obama administration?

    And no, thankfully, I have a standard through which to grade my morality and know when I’m actually wrong, and not end up a messed up mesh of undefined, malleable grey areas that make no sense whatsoever which also happens to be the base of your philosophy.

    For THAT, I am particularly thankful of my religion.

  • JessicaSideways

    “I never justified murder”
    “God never told anyone to murder out spite or self benefit, but rather to fulfill justice.”

    You claim that you never justified murder (lie #1) and that the Bible is against murder (lie #2).

    I am not twisting your words. You tried to justify murder. Oh, and nice attempt to shoehorn Obama into a conversation where it wasn’t related, a kooky conservative through and through.

    Your philosophy is to live your life according to a book of middle eastern fairy tales, and become less moral and more gullible as a result. I think because you choose to mire yourself in immorality and stupidity, that my standards and morals are higher. MUCH higher.

  • Julio Garcia

    And of course, the word Sphere was never used in English literature until the early 1600’s, date which coincides with the publishing of the KJV version of the Bible which was quoted above.

    Galileo gave the RIGHT interpretation of the passages in question. In fact, i KNOW you have not even bothered to look up what other prominent Bible scholars of the era interpreted these passages to mean as well. The Catholics were, WRONG in this particular issue because Galileo, and Copernicus before him had the RIGHT interpretations of those passages, oh and both were, curiously, men of faith.

    Next uninformed remark please?

  • Julio Garcia

    Ok. How did I justify murder? Give me the evidence because I’m reading my own comment and it’s almost embarrassing how SIMPLE I explained the difference between Killing and Murder and you *still* don’t understand.

    The Bible is against murder.
    1. God punished Cain for Murdering Abel.

    2. God punished David for MURDERING Bathsheba’s husband, Uriah.

    3. The 7th commandment – Thou Shalt Not Kill.

    Amon an incessant amount of other examples within the Bible, besides Jesus’ own words, that even Hatred equates to murder, and that both sentiments are evil.

    The funny thing, is I’ve been able to back everything I say. You’re just calling names and twisting statements, way to represent, sis!

  • Julio Garcia

    That’s the thing, Jessica, WHO says you’re Moral? How do you even know you exist? According to your world view you don’t even know!

    There is no standard in your beliefs, you THINK you’re moral, but here you are defending immorality, murder and against national sovereignty. You haven’t shut down ANYTHING whatsoever, because anyone reading through your arguments will only appreciate an empty retort, twisting of words, and a philosophical narrowness unfit for debate.

    But who am I kidding? You’re saying you know you’re right because you THINK you’re right. That’s just plain lunacy! But maybe that’s my mistake – you have total freedom to believe what you will – including self-imposed delusion.

  • Julio Garcia

    Exactly! That’s why many have been trying to disband the Democrat party for years, but them fairy tails too stronk!

  • Kenneth Andrews

    Ah yes the “If you don’t like it leave” argument. Move where I must ask? China? Russia? Brazil? one cage is no better than another cage.

    You are the one threatening to kidnap me this whole time. If I don’t follow Rules you threaten to send men to my house and send me to a prison at gun point. so that I can be “Punished” That sounds like kidnapping to me. And damn well don’t sound like guests.

    You tell me one place In which Free individuals Can go without violent interference from the majority and I would gladly go.

  • rkhammack

    Unproven? You are really out there. Why does man make more and more laws, and deny God’s Laws? All mankind are living a lie and in hypocrisy, by denying their sins, and trying to make laws to make their sins “acceptable”. What man or group of men write a book (Bible) and declare they themselves are condemned because of their sins? NO amount of men would have conceived of this by their wicked hearts.

    Mankind courts are daily convicting people of their sins, because it is God that has set up the governments. And then judges men because they corrupt justice.
    What do you think, people can’t see ‘other’ peoples sin? That it is invisible? The jails are full of convicted sinners. And outside of the jails the world is full of sinners. YOU can deny it all you want, but even that makes you a “bigger sinner”. You surely have lost your “morale compass” and just ‘accuse others” or excuse those ‘like you’.

    Romans 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
    12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
    13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
    14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
    16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

    (Deut 10:17) For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:

  • JessicaSideways

    God, the stupidity of the people on this comments section is too much. I am tired of all the evil people here trying to tell me that (a) homosexuality is wrong (even though it’s not), (b) the Bible is moral (even though it’s not), (c) the Bible is true (even though it’s not) and (d) that I am immoral and stupid because I don’t believe in their imaginary friend. I am fed up with all the dense twits on this thread, so I say good riddance to bad rubbish.

  • Kenneth Andrews

    I don’t believe in any power of men over men. I don’t believe in her right to force me to do something any more than a religious mans right to force others.

    I feel that If a homosexual chooses to get married and be considered equal under the… ugh law. They should be able to do so. However I don’t feel that they should be able to force I church to marry them if its against the beliefs of the religious.

    it all comes down to individual rights.

    If a priest chooses to marry them than let it be so. and if they choose to sign a legal binding marriage contract than let it be so.

    But a the priest that disagrees with it shouldn’t be able to stop the marriage overall by using the legal system. Just as the homosexual shouldn’t be able to force the priest to go against his belief.

    Marriage, and legality should be separate. If someone wants the legal right than it should be an option. If someone wants the “spiritual marriage” than let them do that under whatever priest, Rabbi, Sect, Shaman, witch doctor or whoever chooses to perform the ceremony.

  • Larry TheComputerGeek

    Where does the Bible say unbelievers are fools? You best read Isaiah 5:20

  • Julio Garcia

    Uh, trust me, we’re less sheeple than you. No one distrusts the government’s involvement in people’s every day life, morals and government than us.

    You guys on the other hand, are always looking for any available nipplets on your big government mother-pig, so you can keep un-earned benefits right out of her.

  • Julio Garcia

    Yes, but come on man, you’re much smarter than this. Haven’t you been reading the mess going on in Denmark and GB concerning gays demanding churches to marry them… and winning? Just this last month a gay couple legally forced a church to marry them or be penalized in Denmark.

    While I agree that any man is free to make his choices on his own, this is a God given right, even if it is done for evil purposes. The ultimate goal of this agenda is to subvert everyone into accepting this new morality, not at all as you suggest which would actually be ideal.

    The thing is, you can’t separate marriage from the law. It completely defeats the purpose of it as a binding agreement towards society, and removes safeguards for both parties should problems arise in the relationship. Marrying through the “church” only accounts for including your religious obligations into the relationship, nothing more.

    However our activist friends over here don’t want any opposition to their filth and so will push it to the end, until even you will have to accept it or else.

  • Kenneth Andrews

    let me be clear what I mean by marriage seperate from law.

    all people when signing a contract through government would go through a legal union in the eyes of the government. This means both heterosexuals, and homosexuals will have the same treatment.

    the church Can than choose to give individuals their “spiritual” marriage. This way everyone is equal under the law. Gays have the same legal rights as straight people. without infringing on religious rights.

  • Larry TheComputerGeek

    The Bible is a historically accurate document. There is no mythology when it comes to The Bible.

  • Larry TheComputerGeek

    Jesus is alive and well.

  • Larry TheComputerGeek

    Isaiah 5:20 rebukes people like Jessica that call good evil and calls evil good.

  • Richard Olson

    Hey just because you believe in talking snakes and people living with dinosaurs like the Flintstones doesn’t make it true.

    Christianity is nothing more than another cult that preys on it’s members and society.

    And by the way, “The Flintstones” was not a documentary!

  • Richard Olson

    Why do you religious whacko’s think that quoting the bible to a non believer makes the slightest impression on the non-believer.

    It’s like showing me a DC Comic to prove Superman was real. Grow up. Get a grip on reality.

  • Richard Olson

    Where does the bible prove believers are complete idiots and ill-read, easily led simpletons?

    Try Genesis 1.1 “in the beginning………

  • rkhammack

    There was a day when sharing God’s Word that it may have been God’s Will to save the person in the hearing of His Word. But those days are over. We are now in the “day of vengeance” when God’s Word is used for His Glory to reveal to the heathen of the world and the ‘tares’ of the churches that judgment has begun on them and there is no more salvation, as God has saved all the elect chosen from before the foundation of the world.

    From now to the last day God will (according to HIS will) open up the understanding of the stiff necked and hard hearted that they will have no mercy from God and they will “then know” they are deserving of His Judgment, all to the Glory of the only True Wise God Jesus Christ.

    2Tim 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
    2Pet 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

    Ezek 38:21 And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man’s sword shall be against his brother.
    22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.
    23 Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD.

    Ezek 39:6 And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the LORD.

    Prov 1:28 Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:
    29 For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:
    30 They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof.
    32 For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them.

  • Richard Olson

    Oh, well OK then.

  • Richard Olson

    If she chewed on something one is supposed to smoke would that make her smarter?

  • Richard Olson

    Every single word in the bible is true. It’s only when you group them together as sentences that they start getting iffy.

  • Larry TheComputerGeek

    Well Richard, God mockers and smart-ass Atheists are nothing new…such idiots are well-documented throughout both the Old Testament and the New Testament. Congratulations on your God mocker status.

  • Larry TheComputerGeek

    Foolishness specific for Jessica (and other God mockers) is also described in Isaiah 5:21.

  • Richard Olson

    Well Larry, I think it’s pretty difficult if not impossible to mock a fairy tale and isn’t that the wonderful thing about the bible, it’s so vague there is a built in phrase that poses as an answer to every little question a protester may offer. If one’s gullible enough that is.

    But you thumpers never get that far do you! If one is downright unquestioning and willfully stupid then faith is the great soothing balm, but if one questions then rejects it’s because you don’t have sufficient faith. Or one need be willfully stupid to have faith.

    Cults depend upon un-questioning, easily led, dolts who will mindlessly defend the cult to outsiders just like at Jonestown. Their leaders arm them with silly quotes as response arrows from a truly empty quiver.

  • Larry TheComputerGeek

    Herod…died full of worms… Nietzsche died insane in an asylum… God mockers meet bitter eternities. Saul had a Damascus conversion. To an Atheist, any faith at all is “cult” to a mocker. 1Corithians 2:6-16 says there are (unfortunate persons) not allowed to understand. Enjoy your godlessness, Richard. You will understand more after you pass away. None so blind as those that will not see.

  • Larry TheComputerGeek

    The Bible is historically accurate. Funny how anonymous entities think they can disqualify thousands of years of theology. Such is their prerogative, but failure to consider the source of the aimless god haters ( or obviously godless pratterlers) will be the burden of the readers.

  • Richard Olson

    Gee Larry, is that better or worse that being eaten by lions, or being stoned to death, or turning into a pillar of salt or for that matter getting nailed to a cross.

    So what’s your point? That Atheists will die a horrible death? If that’s your argument I’d like to see some sort of proof, some facts, not just made up Sunday school stuff to scare little children into being little unthinking easily led robots

  • Larry TheComputerGeek

    Some people fear God so much they deny God’s existence.
    Like a child in a tantrum.
    Everyone has life after death. The question is “where?”
    All of creation testifies to the existence of God. ( Genesis, & Romans 1:20)
    Atheism is for wimps.
    I have never seen air, but I have seen the effects of wind.
    I have never seen God, but I experienced the effects of God.
    However: an Atheist will never be satisfied by ANY explanation or testimony. It’s like trying to teach a pig to sing: it is just a waste of time- and it annoys the pig.

  • Richard Olson

    Teaching a pig to sing would be much easier than teaching a believer to think for himself and reason.

    Why on earth would I be afraid of something I know doesn’t exist. Unlike a believer I’m able to lead a moral life without the threat of damnation nor the bribe of eternal life.

  • Richard Olson

    All of DC Comics testify to the existence of superman. And DC Comics says only a fool says there is no Superman.

  • Larry TheComputerGeek

    Christian Believers think for themselves just fine.(Josh McDowell was an Atheist that was converted by trying to disprove God.) It is just the endorsement conclusion of God, Jesus, and the Bible that Atheists cannot tolerate. Accusations by Atheists that Christians don’t think for themselves is simply the prime tool of Atheistic bigotry.

  • Larry TheComputerGeek

    Where does DC comics say that?

  • Larry TheComputerGeek

    So Richard…what do you say will happen to you when you die? Do you subscribe to “oblivion”?

  • Larry TheComputerGeek

    You are self deceived when you say you live a moral life. Your postings here expose gross elements of your self-righteous deception. “All have sinned & fall short of the glory of God”.- Romans 3:23

  • Richard Olson

    I think many, if not most, Christians are better at spreading atheism than Christianity.

    Not because of who Christ is, but because of who “Christians” are.

  • Richard Olson

    They don’t! Someday I hope to meet a christian with a sense of humor.

  • Richard Olson

    The very same thing that will happen to you.

  • Richard Olson

    One of the things I hate most is the pompous, arrogant, self-centered phony satisfaction of Christians who think unless we all march in lockstep with their cult we are not only doomed but we must necessarily be a bad person.

    I could (if I wished) do each and everything a Christian does with the exception of believing, and your cult says I will suffer eternal damnation. As a matter of fact your cult teaches that such a person will suffer along side such notable sinners as Adolph Hitler. What a concept, a person who never murdered anyone but tried his/her best to do right according to natural and man-made laws is treated no different than a murderer.

    That’s not judgment, that’s arbitrary and capricious laziness.

    Lastly, why is this so hard for you to understand…Quoting bible verses to me is meaningless, I don’t believe what the bible says so why on earth would I change my ways based upon it. This is part of what I mean when I say Christians can’t think for themselves. They invariably revert to the bible as if it were proof of something, or an answer to anything.

  • Larry TheComputerGeek

    No. As stated: Everyone has life after death. The only question is where the person spends it.

  • Larry TheComputerGeek

    You have much ignorance & distortion, Richard.

  • Richard Olson

    Hey good answer Larry, sort of like what one expects from a 12year old on the play ground.

    Come to think of it, you never really have any answers, just another quote from fairytale land or some version of “I know you are, but what am I, naa, naa, naa, naa, naa!

  • Julio Garcia

    Uh, no. The image above shows what happens when a totalitarian, anti-biblical, godless government is placed in charge of anything. That means like-minded people to yourself will be the ones holding the torches in the near future. Christians are prepared for this, but that doesn’t mean we aren’t going to fight against it when we can.

    I don’t have to buy into anything any religious leader tells me because my convictions are my own derived from personal research and study. I highly and often criticize other religious leaders for their inability to sacrifice or follow simple biblical concepts, abusing others or preaching false gospels.

    If you don’t want good morality, that’s your problem. Get on a boat and go start some other country, that’s what we did, and look were we are today.

    And no, Liberals *want* more government because now government is protecting the filth they want instated. Thing is, that God doesn’t need to demonstrate himself to you the way you want Him to. He left you a written record of everything you need to know about Him, which has stood all scrutiny that has been thrown its way.

    I happen to think for myself quite a bit, and I think you have to be either really arrogant or really blind to discard the possibility of God’s existence in any sort of intelligent debate.

  • Larry TheComputerGeek

    seriously Richard, your understanding Bible theology is pathetic.

  • Larry TheComputerGeek

    You are superficial at best and overtly full of heresy. You do not understand the Bible because you do not want to. Plus the fact that the second chapter of 1st Corinthians renders you as unable to understand the Bible.

  • Richard Olson

    Ah another great “unanswer”, answer from the guy with no answers.

  • Richard Olson

    Why is it Larry, that each and every time I point out an example of biblical distorted thinking, the best answer you can come up with is that I don’t understand. That is if you answer at all, many times you pretend the question doesn’t exist and thus ignore it.

    You have absolutely no defense of the biblical silliness you take for truth. It seems to my your god has left you woefully bereft of logical believable answers. He has abandoned you just as he abandoned the Jews during WW2, and starving people in poor countries.

  • Larry TheComputerGeek

    I can provide explanations. But no explanation will satisfy a mocker. And you Richard, are a mocker. “Whoever corrects a scoffer gets himself abuse, and he who reproves a wicked man incurs injury.” – Proverbs 9:7

  • Larry TheComputerGeek

    Atheists reserve the right to deny & mock God or Jesus as they wish. But when such Atheists encounter a Christian apologetic enthusiast, they cry like a little girl. 😀

  • Larry TheComputerGeek

    Do you suppose when Jesus was in High School, he would have been the Captain of the swim team? :0

  • Richard Olson

    Yet another unanswer, but this time with “projections”.

  • Richard Olson

    No you can’t and we both know it. If you could you would, but you can’t so you won’t. Every time you reply without an answer to a direct question you provide further proof that all you have is cultist talking points meant to satisfy the weak minded and easily led.

  • Richard Olson

    Like Daffy Duck said….Ha ha, ho ho, it is to laugh.

  • Larry TheComputerGeek

    Again: You are a mocker. No answer will satisfy a mocker. I am quite okay with accepting the fact that there has been & always will be Godless mockers.

  • Larry TheComputerGeek

    You are not worth my time or effort, Richard. I accept you as the Godless mocker that you are.
    If you want answers, go to John MacArthur’s “Grace to you” (gty.com_) website and do your own research.
    Although I doubt that you will.

  • Richard Olson

    Surrender was your only choice from the beginning.

  • Julio Garcia

    Quick correction – People who *claimed* to be Christians, and were not following Biblical principles correctly. The church is *NEVER* ordered to kill anything or anyone in order to earn God’s favor. Biblically, this duty is relegated to the state, which the Bible specifies has been given the “sword” to punish the wicked and reward the righteous.

    Many of the tests they had for determining who was a witch were simply outrageous and completely un-biblical. “If you survive this, you are a witch, if you die then you weren’t.”

    But yes, the fact that you haven’t been given the chance to burn someone as an atheist doesn’t mean it won’t happen. It *will* happen in some way or another, not necessarily burning.

    There is no lack of evidence concerning Genesis. Nature *still* works exactly the same way as described in the first 2 chapters of the book, while your silly evolution theory remains unproven, untested, unprovable, and accepted as “fact”. Seriously man, it takes MORE faith to believe “nothing exploded and there’s everything”, than a structured, ordered and purposeful design to be responsible for us being here.

  • Richard Olson

    When you thumpers can’t come up with a rational explanation for your childish beliefs you sidestep the issue by calling questioners “mockers”, as if that settled the issue, it doesn’t. It just proves that you have no answers, no justification.

    If your god was the one true god, he certainly could come to your aid by providing understandable answers to questions, other than vague riddles and meaningless slogans.

    What if a scientist with a new theory of some importance dismissed skeptics as mere mockers. He would be dismissed as a quack and charlatan, as he should be. But when religion does the same thing, believers think they should get a free pass because it a religion. If anything religion as expressed in the bible should be held to a higher standard. The bible is nothing more than a cults handbook.

  • Julio Garcia

    Uh, no. Sadly, not only is your argument completely uneducated and bogus, truth is, the TEACHING tells the DISCIPLE specifically not to behave in this particular way.

    Your problem associates the erroneous behavior of the adherents to the standards of the teachings. There are NO problems with the teachings so you justify condemning the teachings by the behavior of the followers. Not only is that incredibly asinine logic, I would dare recommend you become more acquainted with the topic before you keep ranting on like this. Seriously man this makes you not look good in an intelligent debate. The teachings must be scrutinized by the teachings, not by the followers exclusively.

    If a state would be ruled by Christian principles it is obvious that legislation would be passed or discussed that would either minimize, discourage or penalize immoral behavior and practices. If you even knew any information concerning this topic or the teachings you condemn, you would know that in the end, legislation based on scripture would admonish immoral behavior but at the same would also seek to help the affected. History has yet to provide a good example of this kind of government, all we have seen are groups of people with faulty theology misleading and justifying their activities with the Bible. Christians don’t want to combine the state and the church. We want the state OUT of the church. The original quote by Thomas Jefferson was referring to this very idea, not the opposite as I presume you to believe.

    Concerning your silly, borderline idiotic statement about “nature making it rain until the mountains are covered”, if you even bothered to read Genesis, you would notice that the Flood was an act of JUDGMENT towards humanity from God. It was not natural. It was meant to be unnatural for that very purpose. The fact that there is no evidence of spontaneous creation of all life on the planet is not our problem, it’s YOUR problem. We believe that God created everything in ONE place, PRESERVED 2 of every kind of land animal from the flood. You believe that nothing exploded and there’s everything. Please, pray tell, give me evidence of this. When do thing naturally generate out of nowhere? I’m sorry but you’re starting to come across as someone who really doesn’t even know what they’re talking about. There is no evidence for evolution. You can’t prove it, yet you believe it and condemn others for not sharing your religious convictions…. Hmm… this is beginning to sound straaangely familiar….

  • Larry TheComputerGeek

    Only in your dreams…

  • Larry TheComputerGeek

    You are not owed any answers. I testify to the reality of God & the Savior Jesus. Your ignorance of “intelligent design” & how all of creation testifies to the existence of God is not my problem. You are free to remain a stupid Atheist.

  • Richard Olson

    Larry, you prove my previous comment.