Separation of brain and reason…

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  • Zac Main

    Your average Republican
    Holds “the right to bear arms” as the most important part of the US constitution.
    See, I can make belittling comments too.

  • fuzznarf

    Except “the right to bear arms” actually IS in the Constitution, unlike “separation of church and state”. next time you try to be snarky and clever, don’t be an idiot.

  • Zac Main

    Clearly you haven’t read your own constitution.
    And next time you try to insult me, don’t use the same label that could be applied to yourself.

  • fuzznarf

    You’re kidding right? Do you have a clue? if so, you should use it.

    Second Amendment: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS, shall not be infringed.

  • Dean Former lee

    Just another clue zac: there is no reference to separation of church and state anywhere in the U.S. Constitution. None. Zip. Nothing. Nowhere. Go look for it. Nothing clearer than that, putzy.

  • Damocles_Aurelius

    I think Zac just gave us a new meme for moronic liberals.

  • Brad Cooper

    Right to bear arms protects all the other rights. The American Revolution actually started when the British tried to confiscate the guns of the colonists. Which is the main reason it was number 2 in the Bill of Rights. The more you know.

  • Alan J. Morrison

    Too bad the phrase “separation of church and state” doesn’t exist in the US Constitution :)

  • fgoodwin

    Zac, if you think the Bill of Rights (and the other Amendments) is NOT part of the Constitution, then I guess you’re another example of Liberal Logic.

  • Charles Kahaealohaulaokalani B

    Ummmmm. The term, “The right to [keep] [and] bear arms” (2nd Amendment) actually appears in the “Bill of Rights”, Zac. The term, “Separation of Church and State”, is not found in the Constitution, or any of the other founding documents. Your comment isn’t belittling, it’s just ignorant.

  • Steve

    Let’s take the argument at face value though, we know what this libs means- that the establishment clause means what it doesn’t. Because the constitution prevents the CONGRESS from establishing a religion overlooks the other part of the amendment “free exercise thereof”.

    You can’t kick me out of your government FUNCTION for expressing my religious beliefs. I can even vote to have a Christmas tree or a cross on government property and you can’t stop me unless you stop all forms of expression equally.

    I can display my religious preferences anywhere that speech is allowed in America.

  • Steve

    So that means I CAN exercise it ANYWHERE. ANYWHERE I can speak I can freely exercise my religion, even in the government meetings, buildings etc. Or did you miss what was prevented?

  • tim

    Hey ZZZak , do you want me to send you a shovel to help with the digging of the hole you should be trying to crawl into right about now , owned you just showed your Hatred and stupidity to an awful lot of People, you worm…..

  • Erik

    ok, but that’s not in the constitution. So, we can all quote stuff. The discussion is about what the constitution says.

  • Steve

    Even a city council or a school district can recognize Christmas. Its not Congress, its not establishing its exercising…

  • svartalf

    Moreover, you might want to re-read that. The government itself is forbidden from ESTABLISHING a State Religion (a’ la Church of England)- and prohibited in interfering with the free practice of the same. It doesn’t do what you’re claiming, nor does Jefferson’s quote do it either. He was referring to the same separation I do- that the State CAN’T have a religion.

    It’s freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM it.

  • Kenneth Andrews

    The point being made is the “PHRASE” Doesn’t exist. and that if you are going to quote something do it right.

    it would be the same as me quoting the phrase in the constitution “gubernment can’t muh GUNS” that phrase doesn’t exist.

  • franklygross

    the words separation of church and state dont seem to appear in your response……….

  • svartalf

    It’s quite pathetic, really, seeing them scrape up all sorts of rubbish to validate what they feel is the law there.

  • Steve

    Exactly. Its only Congress. You can’t establish ANY thing regarding religion, for or against. Religion is speech, I can speak in public I can pray I can have an X-mas tree or a cross on public land. If you can put a vote for measure 2 up there, I can put what I want.

  • Steve

    Vote yes on measure 2 and praise Jesus are both protected forms of expression in public, written, spoken or commemorated in stone

  • ForensicRN

    Zac try taking a look at the Declaration of Independence and even there it refers to God: “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal,
    that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,
    that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”. The Founding Fathers even acknowledged a Creator in the original documents of this country so do you want to keep arguing?

  • Steve

    Maybe if they actually put the constitution in high school social studies classes we wouldn’t run into people who want to ban God and guns in favor of their separation and seizure mentality

    You can’t have guns and you can’t talk about god or I will have you arrested for violating my “living document”

  • Jonny Walker

    Jefferson himself was quoted many times saying that men need to read the Bible he himself made his own version of the Bible using on the Scriptures referring to morality which back then was the way that our founding fathers deamed this country to be ran. And the reason the separation of church and state was even mentioned is because the kings of the monarchy had the Bible printed in a separate language so only the king and his clerics would understand it and used it to enslave the minds of their subjects who could not read it. because back then the king would use it to levy taxes and punishment upon the people who they were illiterate.

  • General Wrath

    Keep the church out of it anyways fuck that noise

  • David Molinarolo

    What Jefferson may have wrote, or not wrote makes no difference, if you take Original Intent into the equation of the perceived notion of “Separation of Church and State.” Allow me to explain. At the time, most if not all colonists had come from England, right? England was ran by the King of England, King George V, right? Ever since King Henry VIII, the King was also the Head of the Church of England. Thus making the King, the leader of a State-established religion.

    So when the Colonists decided to go Independent from England, one of the injustices they sought to remedy from England is doing away with the leader of the country also being the head of the church. The “establishment clause” in the First Amendment was put in there for the sole purpose to prevent the President from becoming the leader of a national religion, and to actually PROTECT the People’s right to practice their religion FROM the government. Now a these days, the Left thinks it means protecting the government from religion of the people. That is not the case at all. The Ten Commandments are engraved on the outside of the SCOTUS itself. And the SCOTUS opens every session with a Prayer. Our basic criminal law is BASED on the Ten Commandments.

    So please take your Teacher’s Lounge knowledge back to your own little world, and let those who actually know the Constitution and our history run this country the way its supposed to.

  • Jonny Walker

    so separation of state is not a part of the Constitution nor was ever meant to dissuade people reading the Bible and applying it morally and that was the intention of the founding fathers reason why you leftys always scream separation of church and state is because you do not want any morals whatsoever to guide you which is exactly why this country is in the shape its in today

  • David Conger

    *face palm* it would be a belittling comment if you actually knew wtf you were talking about.

  • Wayne Carpenter

    You’re so wrong!!

  • triangle whip

    You pretty close there about republicans. Because the right to bear arms is in the constitution. And with out that, the rest the constitution would disappear.. And it was democrats that put in gunlaws to make it hard for blacks to own them.

  • Gary Greene

    Yea, there is no mention of “separation of church and state” anywhere in the constitution, whereas, the 2nd Amendment actually exists.. Furthermore, when referring to the whole “separation of church and state” thing, it’s important to understand the context in which the statement was made… It wasn’t to keep God out of government, but instead to open up the political process to all, instead of just clergy… Zac, read a damn book or two, better yet, Read the federalist, and anti-federalist papers.. You’ll learn a lot…

  • Michael Bulger

    the most important part of the constitution is this

    We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America
    it is a guide for the world yes and I am a republican

  • Wayne Carpenter

    Yep, as long as you keep it to yourself and don’t spend even one cent of taxpayer money trying to coerce others into believing in your imaginary friends.. Yep, anywhere you like.

  • Wayne Carpenter

    Just like ‘I’m a genius’ doesn’t appear in yours.

  • Steve

    Nope, I can vote for taxpayer funded Christmas celebrations. Neat trick, the Congress can’t do a damn thing about it. You don’t like it, vote for someone else

  • Wayne Carpenter

    Still wrong! It’s in there.. if you’ll just read it and get past whatever is keeping you from actually thinking.

  • Gary Greene

    The first part of that: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion” states that you can create any religion you want, or worship anyone or anything you want, without government invasion.. Not separation of church and state whatsoever, and the 2nd, “or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ….” Means that government can’t limit the ability of a citizen to worship their God, where they want, and how they want…

  • Wayne Carpenter


  • Steve

    please cite the article or amendment where that phrase is

  • Gary Greene

    aaannd again.. Taken out of context.. It’s stating that the state cannot affect Religion, not that religion cannot affect the state… Read the words, and look at them in context to the rest of the document…

  • Steve

    I can EVEN ask the city to do religious spoofs. May the 4th can be a National Holiday if congress wants to honor the Jedi

  • Wayne Carpenter

    {sigh} “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
    prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of
    speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to
    assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

  • Wayne Carpenter

    Which god? If we take time out for YOUR imaginary friend, we need to cover them all. We can either spend the entire school year paying homage to ALL of the gods or none. Which way would allow us to get on with real education?

  • Steve

    I see a basic thread in the liberal commentary here. It points to serious lack of understanding of what the constitution is. The document establishes restrictions upon GOVERNMENT, not upon citizens. If it doesn’t say the Government CAN do something specifically, then the government CAN’T do it.

    Can’t prevent you from being religious wherever you want, whoever you are, can’t take your guns, can’t camp in my yard with your army, can’t look in my stuff or jail me just because, can’t keep charging me with the same crime, can’t accuse me of something in secret, can’t prevent me from my day in court AND most importantly can’t do anything, anything that isn’t already covered.

  • Roadie

    We don’t have to try to insult you… you do a pretty good job of it on your own every time you open your mouth.

  • Steve

    Neat so the words Separation Church State are not in that particular phrase there. The word AND is though, great find.

    I asked specifically for the phrase and you show me part of the first amendment. Which doesn’t say what you claim it does anyway. Way to claim intellectual superiority while remaining obtuse

  • Steve

    Whichever I want. I can worship Darth Vader and pray to the Emperor of Japan if I want to. If you don’t want free speech in school that is your problem to enforce universally.

    As far as education goes, I don’t need a primer from a grade school dropout on how to read the Constitution. Quote is a word that means something specific. When you quote something its not “kinda what I think” its THE EXACT WORDS.

  • 33rd Street

    As Bugs Bunny would say, “WHAT A MAR-OON.” I cannot believe he actually asserted that. Funniest thing I’ve seen all day.

  • Steve

    Yes ok, so the STATE can not make a CHURCH the official religion. As a citizen where do you find the government has the power to separate my public person from my free exercise thereof? If I am a citizen, regardless of my role, I can wear my yarmulke, my magic pajamas, my cross pendant, my reindeer hat and put up a tree with lights next to your “its George Bush’s fault” sign in the public square. I can even vote tax money to pay for it

  • Chris Caron

    funniest…I don’t think so…saddest , probably … Some people should not breed…(meaning Zak)

  • Steve

    Yep, the state is separated from interfering with church. So I can have my free expression as a complete person in the public forum. Even as a public officer I would have the right to that expression.

    Where do you find the right to stop a teacher from having a Christmas party at a local school? Your government can’t stop ANY citizen at ANY time from free speech or expression unless you have a special reason to prevent everyone (like you can’t stand in the middle of a street during rush hour) from same

  • flevans

    The scary part is that Zac is at college studying history. 0_o

  • John

    Liberal putdown FTW.

  • Ginger Martinez

    forensicRN. Really? it says their creator, that means whichever God they believe in, not the Christian God. So we should allow a Muslim prayer before council meetings, or football games?

  • Matthew Sailor-Mann

    Thomas Jefferson wrote in a private letter, “I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.” He didn’t say Allah, now did he?

  • Jason Smith

    In actuality you are correct. However the Founding Fathers were Christian and so is the majority of Americans (those that express a preference). I would happily allow a Muslim to pray as long as they first condemned the actions of other Muslims that are killing non-Muslims in great numbers around the world. They don’t, so I won’t………….

  • Dean Former lee

    Is that the ‘Separation of Church and State” clause? Yeah, no, it isn’t.

  • Matthew Sailor-Mann

    Thomas Jefferson wrote in a private letter, “I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.”

  • Matthew Sailor-Mann

    John Adams said “We recognize no Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus!” and “[July 4th] ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.” but I suppose you are so much more accomplished and so much more intelligent than one of the drafters of the constitution.

  • blight14

    Little fella, you’re digging deeper and deeper, they’re right, it ISN’T in the Constitution…..

  • Steve

    Yep, good thing your government can’t shut you up for pissing off your local liberal for not believing what they do.

  • Melrmc13

    And has her nose in the air just like our presidents, showing her disdain for all of us, the little thinking people.

  • Becky Dillon

    My “Liberal logic” tells me that there is not any mention of separation of church and state in the Constitution. Sounds like “Conservative cunning” attempting to distract people from the REAL issues facing ALL of us.

  • Nathan Shafer

    How much of a hand did Jefferson have in drafting either the Constitution, or the Bill of Rights, any idea?

  • Steve

    You mean Constitutional issues like freedom of religion vs. shutting down school parties, public displays of Christmas Trees, saying Merry Christmas?

    Or were you gonna volunteer to fix some extra constitutional societal ill like healthcare availability or poverty or government debt?

  • Nathan Shafer

    Oh good, you can arrogantly assert without providing any support.

    Just like any liberal.

  • janhalt

    It is! Without it ALL of the other rights are meaningless, especially the First.

  • DannyE

    Liberal logic continues to point out the profound lack of education, reason, and ability to think that seems to breed unchecked among liberals. On top of everything else there is the complete lack of common sense among liberals.

  • Guybrush Ak Threepwood

    Can we please just respect all of the constitution and its amendments thank you. Let’s not forget we are all American here. Except the communists.

  • RonzoL61

    So Zac, where exactly would you find the phrase “Separation Of Church and State” in the Constitution? I’ve looked for it for years and still haven’t been able to find it. Obviously you know something the rest of us don’t!

  • Laura Willhite

    Your use of establishment is limited to its definition as a verb. If one considers it as a noun (in this instance, an “Establishment of Religion”) then it still means that Congress can’t make any laws based off the wishes of any one religion.

    1. (verb) the act or an instance of establishing.
    2. (verb) the state or fact of being established.
    3. (noun) something established; a constituted order or system.
    4. (noun) (often initial capital letter ) the existing power structure in society; the dominant groups in society and their customs or institutions; institutional authority (usually preceded by the ): The Establishment believes exploring outer space is worth any tax money spent.
    5. (noun) (often initial capital letter ) the dominant group in a field of endeavor, organization, etc. (usually preceded by the ): the literary Establishment.

  • Cynthia Brown Christ

    Big deal, so the actual words separation of church and state are not in there. There are however, laws in there that secure exactly the words in that phrase.

    The First Amendment to the United States Constitution provides that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ….” and Article VI specifies that “no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.”

  • Cynthia Brown Christ

    So are you trying to tell us that there are two gods? One called god and one called allah?

  • Tyler Dean

    Your average American thinks a piece of paper can define what freedoms you have in your life.

  • Cynthia Brown Christ

    What does “protecting the government from religion of the people?”

    All the liberals I know believe that the establishment clause protects everybody to worship in whatever way they want to, without the threat of being persecuted for their faith, or being told what to believe.

    Is there something else that either liberals or conservatives want to protect the government from? Can a government be protected, or is it the people governing and the citizens of the country that can be protected from something? Just curious.

  • Cynthia Brown Christ

    My comments are from a wiki search I just did on Thomas, B of R, and Constitution.

    The constitution was written by the Continental Congress beginning in 1787. During this time Thomas Jefferson was the US Minister of France, and was living there. He didn’t actually write it, but he gave the framers a lot of advice through the process, and no doubt some of his ideas are within it.

    The Bill of Rights was drafted by James Madison.

    Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence, for those of you who might not know….or remember.

  • ForensicRN

    Ginger, stop trying to muddle things with your silly little arguments. You are ignorant to ASSume I was referring to a “Christian” God. It says Creator which refers to a higher power and that was the Founding Fathers were accepting a place for religion even within the Declaration of Independence and formation of our gorvernment. Now one thing that should be remembered, is this nation was founded on Christian principles not Muslim – good, bad or indifferent and no matter how hard you want to argue that point and I know it’s hard for you and every other liberal to hear and accept.

  • Cynthia Brown Christ

    So what the actual phrase is not in there. Big deal. The words that are in there provide for just that – a separation of church and state.

    Are you advocating a theocracy? I wonder who would like our government to favor a religion that was not theirs, and compel others to live by it?


  • Cynthia Brown Christ

    Do you know what is absolutely hilarious. The liberals say the same exact thing about the republicans.

    Don’t you think that both sides have equal issues?

    If not, just think, each and every day, at work, at lunch, at a party, every other person you meet lacks education, reason and the ability to think.

    Do you really think you are that much smarter than them?

    What is actually happening is that each side does not have the capability of understanding that most issues have two sides. The inability to see the merits of the side that is not your own is the problem -for both liberals and conservatives.

    Hating and berating half of the country you live in is NOT the answer.

    We need both sides for this country to thrive. Like… The liberals care about the poor, the republicans make sure we don’t give them too much money. The conservatives want to throw it all on the military, the liberals want to think about what money we throw to the military and where.

    Disrespect is NOT the answer.

  • Justin

    Actually, reading is hard. Article above said the “phrase” separation of church and state. Congress shall pass no law are different words to mean the same but it is a different phrase. Must I explain the definition of the word, phrase?

    Phrase: sequence of two or more words arranged in a grammatical construction and acting as a unit in a sentence.

    The, “phrase” separation of church and state does not exist in the Constitution. Point about liberals is proven once again.

  • Cynthia Brown Christ

    Classrooms in america today are comprised of Christians, Jews, Muslims, HIndus and more. All the people of all those religions must take the same two or four weeks off during the weeks of Christmas. Everyone, regardless of religion uses this time to celebrate. Why is it such a horrible thing to say: Happy Holidays, or Holiday party, as a way to respect everybody you are sharing a meal, or a school party, or work party with?

    If I am with Christians, which is where I am most of the time, I will say Merry Christmas to them. When with people of faiths I do not know, I personally want them to have a good holiday, so I say Happy Holiday.

    How can that be wrong? To respect all people of all faiths? I honestly don’t get it, nor do I feel that my faith is in danger by such small things like the words we use, or the name of the party at school or work.

    When I hear those christians who enjoy moaning and growing about persecution, and the War on Christmas they seem to be fearful about their own faith and its validity. They also seem to care about only their faith, at the expense of all the others.

    I also wish they would read just one story about real christians really getting persecuted for their faith, so they can see just how good they have it here.

  • Justin

    You miss the point. Many people believe separation of church and state is a part of the constitution as if that is an actual phrase in the constitution. That is the entire point of this article.

    To argue “Congress shall pass no law…” Yes, the constitution protects the freedom of religion from the power of the state however the article was specific in stating the word, “Phrase.”

    Does the, “phrase” separation of church and state exist in the constitution? No. To be fair, I won’t say liberal or conservative but many people are not aware of this just as in previous comments, many people did not understand the definition of the word, “phrase”

    That was the point.

  • Cynthia Brown Christ

    I find your post very thought provoking. I keep going back to the words in the constitution as I think about it.

    So, you said: if it doesn’t say a government can do something then it cannot do it. This doesn’t make sense to me. You are obviously NOT saying that if it doesn’t say that the government can put up christmas trees in its hallways then the government can’t do it?

    It is not only the words of the constitution that bind government as well as citizens against certain behaviors, but the laws borne out from the constitution that do so.

  • Cynthia Brown Christ

    But the trouble is, where it gets really hairy, and sometimes difficult is when we try to establish what exactly promotes general welfare, or secures blessings of liberty.

    The words are nebulous on purpose, so they can live and breath and be modified when necessary. So laws can be made that over time seem ridiculous, and get changed as we the citizens change.

    I think it is all important. The constitution, the amendments and the laws that attempt to honestly follow what was set forth in the constitution.

    Oh, and I am an American!

  • DannyE

    Liberals have run up a $17 trillion debt, downgraded the US credit rating, and made the US the laughing stock of the world. So please tell me out of those how much liberals have contributed to the general well-being of the US.

    You seem to view reality through rose colored glasses which creates a huge hole in the reasoning when you ignore reality. Liberals do this on policy after policy government spending after government spending. Those of us who finance it are tired of getting our pockets picked with no results except more of the same.

  • Steve

    Great, perhaps when those other populations have as large a proportion of Americans in their religion they will probably take their special days.

    Neat trick here is I am not a christian, but I do like Christmas and the traditions that go with it. So while its not wrong for you to say what you say, it isn’t wrong to be particular either. I don’t know the customs well enough to know if a greeting is even exchanged at holidays of the non christian faiths, but I do know that the holiday that we are wishing happiness to people about in December is Christmas.

  • Steve

    No I need to be more specific. Congress can not prevent me and my community from asking our local government to provide a Christmas celebration.

    Congress does not have the power to regulate that behavior because the Constitution says it can’t.

  • Cynthia Brown Christ

    Give me a break. Really? Sooooo, all liberals are immoral. You place yourself on a higher plane that every other person you come in contact with each day? (since have the country is liberal.) Is that moral? Isn’t there something in the bible about hubris being an abomination to the lord – prov 16, OMG this means that pride is just as bad as being gay! (i’m just sayin’.)

    Liberals and conservatives have vastly different definitions of what is right and what is wrong. Both sides provide meaningful context to this. Not just one.

    I voted for republicans for most of my life. I began to change when the republican party started equating themselves to god, demonizing the other side. Political affiliation does not equal religious affiliation. My faith was to sacred to give it over to politicians.

    Of course our religions guide our decisions and our values, but your religious beliefs should never over rule my religious beliefs,nor violate the constitution – a living breathing adaptable document.

  • DannyE

    There is no merit to being a liberal. It shows brainlessness, ineptitude, and total lack of critical thinking skills. There is no more common ground there is only stopping the crumbling of freedoms that liberals seem to hate.

    Get on board with freedom and I’ll be all for what you want, otherwise I will fight you to the last breath.

  • Cynthia Brown Christ

    Perhaps that is one reason but not the only one. Those drafting the constitution were also very concerned with religion being used as a qualification to hold elected positions. And to denying those of one religion the rights that another religion had.

  • Cynthia Brown Christ

    I don’t understand why you are saying that you can display your religious preferences anywhere. Isn’t that one of the things that angers cons christians the most – that they in fact, cannot do that. Isn’t that why fox coined the term, War on Christmas?

    I just today read a story about a teacher in Ohio that sued, and lost, because he wouldn’t take down his religious artifacts from his desk, or stop talking about creationism.

    A good friend of mine who worked for a government office, was threatened to be fired if she didn’t put away her enormously christian stuff all over her office, because it was deemed to be inoffensive to clients of other faiths.

  • Cynthia Brown Christ

    Who is this they? Anybody who interprets it differently from you?

  • Cynthia Brown Christ

    I don’t want some strange teacher telling my children how to pray! Why do republicans want to open the door to the corruption of their kids by people who call God by other names? . .

  • Cynthia Brown Christ

    Big deal. You do know why he wrote that don’t you? It was a direct response to a British major who ordered them and those with them to disperse in the name of George the sovereign King of England. Something he obviously wanted to get away from, say perhaps by having a separation from church and state?.

    You quote one guy. Many of the other founders said nasty things about christians. They still didn’t want religion tangled up in the job of governing. they saw and hated what it did to England.

    Just because a person is religious doesn’t mean they want one religion to have control over what they do, and believe.

  • Cynthia Brown Christ

    Many of our founding fathers, as well as many supreme court justices have proclaimed that article IV is in fact – a separation of church and state.

    Are all these guys stupid? You are acting like liberals pulled the phrase out of their derrieres, when we are just requoting what already intelligent and highly respected framers and justices have already said.
    Jefferson’s metaphor of a wall of separation has been cited repeatedly by the U.S. Supreme Court. In Reynolds v. United States (1879) the Court wrote that Jefferson’s comments “may be accepted almost as an authoritative declaration of the scope and effect of the [First] Amendment.” In Everson v. Board of Education (1947), Justice Hugo Black wrote: “In the words of Thomas Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect a wall of separation between church and state.”

  • Dustin Bennett

    Except the right to bear arms IS the most important part. Without the 2nd Amendment, the government would be free to take the rest away. Why do you think they are trying so hard to ban and restrict gun ownership?

  • Dustin Bennett

    Apparently, grammar and syntax are hard too…

  • Steve

    The first amendment allows the free exercise of religion. That means that wherever its ok to have free speech its also ok to express religion.

    SO the private company is not a place where you can express free speech. Your employer the school district can also restrict speech disruptive to its aims School boards also have the authority to determine curriculum and expect their employees to conform. However, its not based on a separation clause.

    You may have authority as an employer to restrict the use of personal religious displays. You can not be prevented by government. The war on Christmas is the twisted interpretation of the separation and a hyper sensitivity to political correctness. It is Christmas and if you won’t say it to me because you have been cowed by the secularists to say happy holidays then you are a casualty of that war. You CAN say it anywhere, and its cowards in positions of authority that choose to pretend that there is a constitutional rationale for pretending Christmas isn’t the Happy Holiday. There is NO legal reason to prevent your employees from doing something religious other than because you don’t want someone to complain.

  • Dustin Bennett

    Also, I don’t find that to be belittling at all. Allow me to use a special southern quote here: bless your heart

  • carleyrow

    Another prime example of a low information liberal. Can we please start exterminating these people? Why wasn’t Zac one of the aborted ones for protection for “reproductive rights”. Ugh this country just just keeps breeding more and more idiots like him.

  • James L. Greenlee

    Separation of church and state IS pretty damned important.

  • making_pie

    Zac Main : Libertard spokesman 2013

  • Don West

    “Clearly you haven’t read your own constitution.
    And next…..”

    Which magical piece of literature were you describing when you referred to the constitution as “your own”. Please do enlighten me as to which constitution you mean….. apparently, our liberal-voting citizens have “your” same delusional copy.

  • Brandon Smith

    Someone narded out. it’s ok, you can’t be right any of the time

  • RGenck

    This is just the best, hahahaha, you know another website actually highlighted this comment, hahaha, silly Democrat.

  • Kinji Wiegand

    Here is the thing people the founding fathers wanted it to be were a biased cannot be help by a religion. Meaning I could practice my religion and the government cannot stop me, not that I can do what ever the fuck I want and say my religion lets me. You are free to practice not force.

  • King David

    Here’s a little Bible Story…..In the Old testament God spoke two two types of people, Prophets and Kings…..The Kings were put into position to Rule or lead the Country. And if you had a Godly King, He would meet with the Prophets (who were hearing Gods voice) and get supernatural insight on how that country could prosper, And if God was blessing a country, it would be very strong!!! And Everyone would Prosper and be Happy!!!
    But if a Country would turn from the Lord, It would become weak and overtaken, Gods blessings and Protection would not be there!
    The Seperation of Church and State was never supposed to be………The Country should ask direction from God and his Blessing!!!
    Or else the Land will become cursed until we turn back and to him.
    Example: America is a Christian Nation…..Even though President Obama ( An Antichrist ) Says its not! He is an Ungodly Leader…..Someone needs to be put into office that has God on there side and get this country turned around!!!
    Example: Haiti is one of the poorest nations in the world, The children have to get food from dumpsters, many starving to death and sickness runs ramped there, Here is the Reason Why……..There #1 Religion is Witchcraft, There is a curse over that land because of this……..And many of them people serve the Devil, because they don’t now any better!
    John 3:16 For God so loved the World that he sent his only begotten son. ( Jesus Christ) That whosoever would believe in him, should have everlasting life!!!
    Jesus Christ is God
    Ask him into your heart today and he will begin to turn your life around and teach you his ways!!! Only He can break the curse!
    Here’ s a few things that will help you get on track!!!
    Look up Sid Roth, Tb Joshua, Jason Upton, Patrichia King, and Misty Edwards all on Youtube!
    Begin to ask God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit to reveal themselves to you!!! Through Prayer or Meditation.
    And pick up the Bible and begin to read in the Book of Matthew!
    Jesus is coming Back soon! So America needs to Prepare herself! God Bless You all and I hope this helps :)

  • Richard Helm

    I will make this point simple for all of you to understand. It boils down to two very easy words. Freedom OF Religion (as specified in the Constitution) versus Freedom FROM Religion (the Liberal creed).

    You may get as complex as you wish but that is what it all boils down to.

  • Doug Todd

    “Separation of Church and State” is not in the Constitution — though it DOES prohibit the Govt. from establishing an Official State Religion. “Keep and Bear” is the 2nd Amendment and works to guarantee the others.

  • Doug Todd

    “establishment of religion” top make one church Dominant — as in England and many other countries is prohibited. The Founders recognized the existence of God without requiring you to and without prescribing any particular form of worship.
    We used to know that.

  • Doug Todd

    ” “or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ….” applies even to local school boards.

  • Doug Todd

    We already allow that. The decision is local.

  • Doug Todd

    …and the Muslims.

  • Doug Todd

    Those have ALWAYS been applied. You are crying for something you already have in abundance.

  • stairman

    that isn’t what the words mean wayne….establishment in this context means establishment of a state religion….such as the church of England. You can’t ignore the time the document was written in no matter how much it being twisted tries to support your position

  • stairman

    yes ginger if they would allow other religeons to peacefully coexist with islam that would be fine …but we do know the truth about islam don’t we…or has your head not been disengorged from your alimentary canal?

  • chad

    Nobody is advocating a theocracy, just the freedom to express themselves individually without being attacked. If a school decides a picture of Jesus should remain because it has been there 100 years, why should anyone force them to remove it? Especially if the overwhelming majority wants it to stay or doesn’t care. Operating under a theocracy is the exact polar opposite of what liberals are doing to religion in public…both are extremes and unwanted force. Why would you want to open the door to the other end of absolute rule?

  • Ron Gilbert

    It’s not that people believe that Liberals pulled this from their backsides. It’s the fact that Liberals believe this statement came from the Constitution when it fact it was written by Thomas Jefferson in a letter to John Adams. The mere fact that the Constitution says that we have a right to freedom OF religion and not FROM religion should bear evidence that the way that the Liberals interpret what our forefathers meant is completely inaccurate and an outright lie. The Supreme Court is guilty of misinterpreting this as well. They took it to mean that the Church was to stay out of what the State was doing when in fact it meant that the State was to stay out of what the Church was doing (and when I say “Church” I am not talking about the Roman Catholic Church. Church means “body of believers”). The Constitution is a set of guidelines for controlling what the government does to the people not the other way around.

  • jkhall

    actually negative. They are allowed to use Funds received By the locality to do as they see fit. the funds they receive from the federal tax payers are to be used by federal guidelines.

  • Ron Gilbert

    That is exactly right Steve. When Jefferson wrote his letter to the Danbury Baptist Association regarding a wall of separation between church and state, he was referring to it being on a NATIONAL level, not a local level. The Constitution is about preventing government from infringing upon us as well as being the document that sets up what the government can do.

  • jkhall


    here is where it can all be cleared up. We have a right to religion. Not a protection From religion. The separation of church and state was from a supreme court decision. Its premise was that our government cannot force a religion onto the people that they must adhere by. But it does NOT say they cannot celebrate or acknowledge religion dates and celebrate them.

    I.E ; I am free to worship and celebrate my religions views anywhere I want as long as I am not trespassing on “Private” Property. And so you do.

    Our federal government has the same rights to celebrate all religions, their ceremonies, and holidays.

  • Michael Taylor

    The right to bear arms actually is a key part of the Constitution.

    Without the possibility of armed revolt, government that is made up from imperfect (and some very bad) people can and have drifted into cruel tyrannies.

    So, dear Zac…the 1st is guaranteed by the 2nd.

  • Ron Gilbert

    And in a perfect world you would be correct. We live in the United States where our government has been hijacked by corporations and globalists and our current system does not work as your idealistic beliefs deem it to. From your comments that I have read on this thread, I get the impression that you believe yourself to be Christian. Are you not forgetting that the world hates God? Are you not forgetting that the world will do anything that it can to go about their lives apart from God and His will?

    Most of those that I see posting on here are talking about a Liberal ideology that imparts more government upon the people. Government’s as a whole are evil. God tells us that we are to fight against that evil in high places not embrace it like the Liberals do. Most of what Liberal ideology focuses on is freedom to act immorally (abortion, keeping the church out of government affairs, gay rights, criminal rights instead of victims rights…..) and you as a supposed Christian are to stand against that.

    Isaiah 5 talks about what God says about people that will call good evil and evil good. We are living in that time. We are living in a society that takes “judge not lest ye be judged” as a belief system that says you are not to tell me when I am doing wrong because that would be judgmental. God says otherwise. Look into what is called the “imperative” in Greek. Each of the verses that tells us to rebuke someone for wrong doing, to stand up for what God says as truth, to stand against sin, and even that verse that says to remove the log from your eye before you remove the splinter from someone else is written in the imperative which means it is a command to do so.

    We are living in that end times where Christians are going to be CONQUERED, not just persecuted. Even though we know that this is coming, God still wants us to stand against this and FIGHT IT tooth and nail. Again, we are to fight corruption in government. We are to fight against leadership that is ungodly, which is what we have had for over 100 years in this country. We have been sold out to Satan, plain and simple and you seem to be more focused on believing that standing against Liberal ideologies is creating more division in this country. WE ARE ALREADY DIVIDED so stop playing middle of the road. God wants you to choose His side, not the middle ground. We are to bring people together for the cause of Christ, nothing else and I do not see you preaching that message here. You are preaching compromise.

  • Michael Taylor

    And the word used isn’t ‘establishing’, but ‘establishment’…as in an institution.

    Congress can’t pick a favorite State religion, denomination, or individual church to promote and protect beyond all the others.

  • Michael Taylor

    Which is why they either should not use Federal funds, or that ridiculous requirement should be removed.

    States and local governments should be free to act as they wish even if they’re receiving funds stolen from the people.

  • Miki M. Gain

    Ginger Martinez – we already DO. It is only the Judeo-Christian God that is being excluded.

  • Justin

    Damn. Phrase… “A sequence of two or more words arranged in a grammatical construction and acting as a unit ina sentence.”

    Is the, “phrase” Separation of church and state in the Constitution? “Congress shall pass no law” is a different phrase.

    This was the very point of the article. Many on the left believe Separation of church and state are words found in the constitution.

    There are words that mean the same but the phrase is not in the stinking Constitution and I’m having to argue with your dumb _ss over basic definition of words. “P H R A S E.” You just proved our point again.

  • DJones1964

    Jesus is not God. He is the Son of God. You sounded great until you said “Jesus Christ is God”, at that point you blew it.

  • Roger Miller

    See jkhall’s response below. Local governments are not the federal government and are not regulated the same way. In fact, there is an amendment just for that. Look at number 10.

  • chad

    Interpreting and twisting the words to meet a specific agenda aren’t the same thing. If you study how the English language has evolved since the documents were written you’d see that we have changed the use of the context in our everyday language. To properly decipher you would need to understand the words as they were used at the time. Such as “well regulated”, which at the time meant well trained, or kept to a standard…and often misunderstood as meaning controlled leaving to interpretation the right to levy laws against.
    if I could time travel, maybe the founders would add the definition of each word so that their documents wouldn’t be misinterpreted. The documents were written to bind the government from having too much control, not to let the government twist the words so they can give themselves more control over the people.
    In how you’ve expressed yourself, you seem to be ok with this separation so long as religious freedoms are suppressed. A total theocracy would be the same thing, only the force would be coming from the religious leaders. Force and oppression are bad, regardless of who holds the power. The documents express that the power should be held by the individual…giving us the right to express ourselves without oppression.

  • Guybrush Ak Threepwood

    Take your hate elsewhere, I’m muslim. I’m also an OIF/OEF vet.

  • Steve

    Where do you read freedom to exercise as an imposition of a theocracy?

    The constitution expressly forbids congress from establishing a state religion (theocracy). I am very clearly in favor of that interpretation. So you are either purposely misreading what is being said or you are incapable of discerning clear statements.

    How do you read the establishment clause as anything other than the specific restriction of congress from interfering with citizens expression of their personal beliefs? My expression is not an imposition on you and and no I will not shut up because it hurts your feelings for me to say Merry Christmas. Further, no matter WHO I am I get to exercise this right in the same manner as anyone else exercising their first amendment rights.

  • Steve

    Why do you persist on purposely misconstruing what is being said just so you can oppose republicans.

    Take a breath and go back and re-read. YOUR words indicate that you hold a position that is opposed to government imposition of religion. REPUBLICANS are also opposed to government imposition of religion.

    YOUR words indicate that you are in favor of everyone being able to practice their religion without someone else telling them its wrong. REPUBLICANS are also in favor of the free exercise of religious beliefs.

    REPUBLICANS generally take that to mean that if A PERSON wants to say Merry Christmas (like themselves) they get to and YOU or any government agency can’t stop them.

    YOU seem to interpret that to mean that that that REPUBLICANS want to force you to do something when its clear all they want is for you to leave them be. Even if the majority is Christian, they still get to be Christian in public just like anyone else

  • Buggs56

    You know. Rude comments just show you do not have a valid argument. Calm reasoned presentation of facts win a discussion, not rude emotion.

  • Steve

    They is you. You specifically are being argumentative and obtuse just to be on the other side. You are so close to interpreting this correctly and your mental block about republicans is obviously causing you issues.

    Instead of pointedly misreading things why don’t you tell us what: Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion or the free exercise thereof means to you? That way we can give you the slight correction. You might actually be a republican and you just don’t have enough information to realize we aren’t actually about making people thump bibles and trying to kill black people

  • Justin

    That misses the point. This entire article implies people believe the words, “Separation of church and state” are in the constitution. That phrase is not in the constitution.

    To argue the meaning of the constitution is a separate issue. Is the phrase, “Separation of church and state” in the constitution? No. Does, “Congress shall make no law” mean the same thing? Yes.

    To show the point this article has made, look at how many people on this site have argued without understanding the definition of the word, “Phrase.”

  • Justin

    This is hilarious. To assume i am advocating theocracy because I said you’re too stupid to understand the definition of the word, “phrase” proves my point.

    Is the phrase, “Separation of church and state” in the constitution? No. Does, “Congress shall make no law” mean the same thing, yes?

    Why is that relevant? This entire post was a trap. You’re arguing the meaning of the constitution without understanding the definition of the word, “Phrase” Liberal logic 101. You proved our point. Thank you.

  • chad

    Jesus is the son of God, but through the holy trinity they are one in the same. It’s a confusing idea to understand, but he is not incorrect either. I’m a Catholic, have been for 35 years…I still can’t really explain it….but have been taught that he is both.

  • Justin

    I am trying to be fair in this. The entire point of this post was to say many people, left and right, believe the phrase, “Separation of church and state” is in the constitution. Does, “Congress shall make no law…” mean the same thing? Yes.

    Why is that relevant? This entire post was a trap. Look at how many people on here have argued without understanding the basic definition of the word, “Phrase.”

    Two questions. Is the, “phrase” “Separation of church and state” in the constitution? If you want to want to argue meaning then what is the definition of the word, “phrase.”

    You were baited and you fell for it.

  • Jeff Coil

    As the Founding Fathers saw it, that’s true. The government should not impose a religion on anyone. The problem is in the modern, liberal interpretation of “separation of church and state” (which appears nowhere in the Constitution at all). A school hanging a picture of Jesus, or the Ten Commandments carved into a monument on a courthouse lawn, is in no way “imposing a religion”. I have heard many liberals say religions people should be banned from holding office or even voting, all based on this “separation of church and state” lie.

  • Doug Todd

    That was only the original purpose — it has since been broadened to include all but the Ruling Class.

  • CrashFroelich

    If you want to understand the context and connotations of the Consitution, the dictionary is the wrong place to look. Try the Federalist Papers.

  • triangle whip

    Yep The ruling class will always have an exemption..

  • James L. Greenlee

    The separation of church and state protects both church and state. I can’t believe anyone would really want to open the floodgates to any and all religions in schools, courthouses, etc. The blind panic about “Sharia Law” should prove that.

    There is no reason whatsoever that the 10 commandments or Jesus should be in a public school or on a public building. In no way can you say it’s not religious. There’s no valid defense for it. If it’s NOT religious, and it DOESN’T impose religion on the public at large, for what reason is it there?

  • TheRealJackpineSavage

    Without the Right to Bear Arms, the other Rights are worthless. Don’t believe me, ask a citizen of the former Soviet Union which right they lost first.

  • TheRealJackpineSavage

    That doesn’t Say Separation of Church and State, it just says the government cannot create a State Religion. I understand reading comprehension is hard when you have a tiny little brain, but still…

  • TheRealJackpineSavage

    Definition of Religion: The worship of a God or gods… Wow, liberals are So Damn Dumb

  • Cynthia Brown Christ

    In fact, I had voted republican all my life, until the Bush administration started having the focus on the family over,and politicians started saying things like theirs is the party of God.

    My faith is the most important thing in the world to me.

    I see that when it is mixed with politics it is surely going to be corrupted, because it is the nature of a politician to use whatever tools they have to sway the opinions of others,

    I had no opinion when I came to this site. It just seemed like a topic I would like to understand better. How that I see that it is a republican site designed to make others look stupid, I have disliked it. And I won’t be coming here in an attempt to understand what the other side is thinking, which is very important to me.

    Both sides have truth to their message. And out country needs both sides to thrive.

    The person who doesn’t realize this is the most ignorant one of all, whether democrat or republican.

  • philmon

    So then you’re saying they can pass laws based on two or more religions?

    Actually an “establishment” here means something similar here as an eating “establishment” or a drinking “establishment” — which is an established entity recognized for its particular purpose, as in #3 above. Such as the Catholic Church, the United Methodist Church, the Church of England, the Lutheran Church, etc. It was put there both to keep unexpected officials from decreeing laws and to keep elected officials from persecuting people for their religious beliefs.

    The people can vote for whatever laws they like as long as they don’t restrict another’s liberty – the ole “your right to swing your arms ends where my face begins” bit.

    I mean, prohibitions against murdering, stealing, and perjury are all spelled out in the ten commandments. By the logic above, that would mean Congress could pass no laws concerning them, either.

  • James Ernst

    If you’re a liberal, why the fuck are you on this site?

  • Michael Taylor

    Then you need to write a constitution that includes that provision. As it stands, you do not have such a document, since the 1st Amendment doesn’t guarantee freedom from religion, even in the Federal government.

  • Jeremie Morse

    Well Wayne If the Federal government was small as our founders intended this would not be an issue. States and local governments have more say whether not not to support faith based programs. That way if you don’t like that city or states spending of money pm those programs you can vote them out or move. You can move. The Constitution does not Guarantee you or me the right not to be offended.

  • Ginger Martinez

    so the Christians must condemn the acts of other Christians that are abusing and degrading other Christians as well as all of the “Christian killings” that have happened in history. And I have heard many of the muslim community condemn them.

  • Ginger Martinez

    That is exactly my point no specification of which religion. But you didn’t answer my question, shouldn’t we have all types of prayer before these meetings as well as in school. If we are going to have a prayer to the Christian God we would have to be fair to all other religions, that would take too long therefore, no prayer is more logical. matter how hard you want to argue that point and I know it’s hard for you and every other conservative to hear and accept.

  • Ginger Martinez

    How does that make us dumb?

  • Ginger Martinez

    I do not believe that this has been a major issue in the American Muslim population, but the exact opposite with Christian Right denying the right to put up Mosques for their worship.

  • Ginger Martinez

    Actually they mean the same. If you are free to practice whichever religion you want, you are also free to not practice one.

  • Ginger Martinez

    “Now a these days, the Left thinks it means protecting the government from religion of the people.” I don’t even know what you mean about liberal people thinking that. What we are saying is nobody has the right to try to force others to practice a particular religion which is exactly the point made by the amendment.

    Before you imply that we are less intelligent than you, you should check you word choices.

    “What Jefferson may have wrote, or not wrote makes no difference”

    “England was ran by the King of England, King George V, right?”

  • Steve

    @gingermartinez:disqus Ha,Ha! You are berry smaht. Public places where your 1st amendment
    rights are protected are…owned by the public and your 1st amendment
    rights are protected. If you can stand in a park and scream about the
    99% then I can stand in that same exact park and put up a Christmas tree. My right to exercise my religion is EXACTLY the same as your right to free speech. See US constitution, Amendment # 1

  • Steve

    Yes, sure. If you want to be “fair” and have a meeting you don’t have to have an official prayer. But you can and there’s nothing fair about stopping someone from doing one anyway.

    Logic provides for a solution that isn’t obvious to you apparently. If a meeting allow for unregulated expression, then what I say is not germaine to your interpretation of fair.

  • Steve

    Which is why the state can not make any laws establishing a religion or interfering with an establishment such as religion. Because who in their right mind would want the government guns to point at you and tell you its time to pray? Wouldn’t you prefer to be able to pray publicly or privately without repercussion from the government.

    SO, in an effort to separate church and state, the 1st amendment expressly forbids the congress from making ANY law respecting such establishment.

    In other words, you can’t take your government out to make my religion shut up. Nor can you give your guns to the service of any religions (see Egypt: Muslim Brotherhood) desire to impose themselves on the populace. Get it right leftie…

  • Steve

    And guess what? Because of the first amendment, you can say those EXACT things in public and have them condemned in public as well without going to JAIL! Not supposed to be anyone checking on you to see if you are speaking correctly, because as a citizen you have a right to free speech and religion at the same time.

  • Jason Smith

    As a Christian, I condemn all acts of barbarism. I could apologize but, as I have done no barbarism to my knowledge, I am not responsible for any actions other than my own.

  • Steve

    You are obviously extremely confused. I just said you can’t impose religious rule ala the muslim brotherhood and here you go saying that I said the opposite. Really need to get over the opposition for opposition’s sake and read the words. ANYONE can have ANY religion ANYWHERE that you can do free speech. Its part of the whole 1st amendment “freedom of expression” idea.

    While its not expressed exactly in those words, you can’t really be advocating that the 1st amendment protects people from other people’s free expression. If I am religious I can be that in public. You government can’t stop me or make me (aka no religious rule) either way is prohibited. I CAN but I DON’T HAVE TO and I can’t force YOU to stop either. If you truly don’t get that then you are too dense to be in this discussion

  • Steve

    Ho, Ho, Ho > crapping on a cop car. One is protected under the first amendment, the other is lewd behavior. Does that clear things up?

    If its ok for anyone chant, its ok to for anyone to honor their religion. IF you can occupy the Wisconsin State House with a union protest, you can also occupy it with a Christmas tree. If you can have a gay rights parade, you can have an Easter parade. You can even have a Ramadan sing along or Buddha beer festival.

  • Wayne Carpenter

    So, by that logic, I should be able to rob banks and kill morons.. since there isn’t any specific PHRASES in the Constitution prohibiting it. Thanks! I’ll take that under advisement. By the way, no one is MAKING you argue with ANYONE. That’s your own choice. Why don’t you sit down and shut up? The grownups are talking.

  • Steve

    I have already said I am not a Christian so lets start there. A “government function” usually doesn’t include free expression. But if it does, religion counts too.

    You already subsidize churches, through tax exempt status. Your kids don’t HAVE to do anything like praying, but why do you get to decide what my kids do and where? What if they want to meditate or pray toward Mecca 5 x a day? Do you have the right to stop their free exercise in any forum?

    You can’t make it a matter of public policy that I don’t follow any religious rule, nor can you require that I cease it in any way, regardless of the sphere.

  • Richard Olson

    Not true, liberals understand The term “separation of church and state” appears nowhere in the Constitution. The metaphor of a “wall of separation” comes from a letter President Thomas Jefferson penned to a group of Baptists in Danbury, Connecticut—a dozen years after the Constitution and Bill of Rights were ratified. The phrase is not mentioned in the Constitution’s text or in any of the debates leading to its ratification.
    The reason Liberals know that is because we read books and don’t watch Faux News.

  • DJones1964

    When you have children and they grown up and have children of their own. Does that make them the same as you? No they are still your child.

    Yes Jesus does have the divine powers God gave him. But he is not God, but the son of God. People for centuries have tossed this around. Gods first creation “CREATION” was Jesus. So to keep in line with what you are saying then Jesus is a demi-god.